Who are the PC brigade?

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Editing 40 years worth of national team players into 30 minutes is a well tricky business by anybody's reckoning. Bearing in mind that these are old men doing the selection, I reckon maybe best to give them the benefit of the doubt on this occasion. Otherwise the charge would have been they'd added a 'token' non-white player against what is presumably their honestly-held footballing opinions.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Tooting Gull, I'll never understand in a million years why people like you feel so threatened, in fact, terrified, by a little bit of positive discrimination narrowing inequalities a little quicker than they might otherwise be narrowed. For example, the increase in the representation of women in Parliament through the Labour Party's use of all-women shortlists.

The only bit in your post you missed out on Tooting Gull was the reassurance that some of your best friends are black

I don't need to add much to that. An answer that captures in a nutshell why so many people you don't know refer to you as arguably the most patronising person on the site. Yes, that's right - some people don't agree with you.

 

[London Irish]

The problem is certain people (not everyone by all means) have taken the idea to extremes and all aspects of our language and culture must be sanitised just in case it might give offence. I'm sure you're well aware of this and even you must wince at times - unless you are a complete control freak.

Nah, the only thing that makes me wince is people swallowing all this bilge pumped out by the rightwing media that we're a nation awash with PC. Sorry mate, believe it if you want, but the PC Emperor has no clothes. It's just a series of myths cobbled together by some very well-paid, cynical journalists and politicians for the gullible to believe in order to slow the fight for greater racial, sexual and class equality in this country.

The shit pumped out by the Littlejohns, the Clarksons, the Daily Mail etc won't work because people will always fight for equality if they have an ounce of self-respect in their body. And we will win

 

[Tooting Gull]

One thing I will say for you though Irish - you've absolutely mastered the art of not answering anything specific in the post you're disagreeing with. Truly a wannabe politician.

 

[London Irish]

thats right LI, lets increase in the representation of women in Parliament through all-women shortlists. That addresses the real issues of why women arnt equally represented in all walks of life. Let do the same with other minority shortlists. The dozens of new Black and Asian MPs will be happy to know they got there due to thier colour and not on ability.

Well, speak to any of the women MPs who've been elected this way, and they'll tell you different. I'm not 100% sure, but I think there are moves to make Caplin's replacement come from an all-women shortlist.

Seems fair enough to me, there are many talented women in the membership of B&H Labour Party who could do a fine job as MP for Hove - there is no necessity for all 3 of the city's Labour MPs to be men. Don't people think it would be a good thing if the city had at least one woman MP?

But Beoththelm, you have correctly identified the limits of positive discrimination - that it only helps to create a middle-class elite within a disadvantaged group in society. But I have no problem with that per se, a black person deserves the same opportunities to be a successful, middle-class sell-out as a white person

It's true that to create genuine equality you need redistribution of wealth, a massive extension of democracy throughout society and an end to systems of privilege in this country like public schools - and guess what, it won't surprise you that I'm in favour of that too. How about you?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Nah, the only thing that makes me wince is people swallowing all this bilge pumped out by the rightwing media that we're a nation awash with PC. Sorry mate, believe it if you want, but the PC Emperor has no clothes. It's just a series of myths cobbled together by some very well-paid, cynical journalists and politicians for the gullible to believe in order to slow the fight for greater racial, sexual and class equality in this country.

The shit pumped out by the Littlejohns, the Clarksons, the Daily Mail etc won't work because people will always fight for equality if they have an ounce of self-respect in their body. And we will win

Frankly not true !

Schools not allowing the use of the ryhme "Black Black Black Sheep", the blackboard being renamed as the chalkboard are two true, real life examples of PC. It's true because my wife was instructed thus when she taught in state schools. Thankfully private schools have a little more commonsense than you run of the mill civil servant.

You're living a lie if you really think things like women only short lists are GOOD ??

Commonsense dictates that people should be selected on their abilities - not their skin colour, sex, religion etc - something the PC brigade are seriously short of.

 

[Simster]

Tooting Gull, I'll never understand in a million years why people like you feel so threatened, in fact, terrified, by a little bit of positive discrimination narrowing inequalities a little quicker than they might otherwise be narrowed. For example, the increase in the representation of women in Parliament through the Labour Party's use of all-women shortlists.

The only bit in your post you missed out on Tooting Gull was the reassurance that some of your best friends are black

I've got a question. How is Tooting in any way demonstrating that he is "threatened" or "terrified" by the idea of positive discrimination? Just because he says it's a crap idea? Do me a favour!

Despite the fact that I find myself agreeing with in you in many cases, I find your continual patronising gets right on my tits.

 

[London Irish]

Yes, that's right - some people don't agree with you.

Indeed so, and I try not to take it personally - it's the best way Tooting Gull

 

[Tooting Gull]

Indeed so, and I try not to take it personally - it's the best way Tooting Gull

I think my relaxed approach to both you and this site is shown by the fact I haven't felt the need to defend myself at all. I'm very happy with my point of view, thanks, despite some baseless accusations.

People might not agree with me over an issue, and I may vehemently disagree with them, but I won't talk to them like they're shit. You might start doing likewise, it's doing you no favours.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I thought the PC Brigade were a new special Police unit made up entirely of cross-dressing Constables formed to crack down on the growing problem of Black & White Minstrels recruiting badly dressed vulnerable teenagers into a life of Music Hall.

 

[RickofBHAFC]

PC people - the type who are happy to advertise an Eid-ul-Adha celebration for Muslims but not a Carol service for Christians (in case they offend any other religions). The type who think it's ok for there to be a Black Police Officer's Association but not a white one (because it would be racist).

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm sure Rodney Marsh would be reassured to read the common sense PC-bashing so eloquently displayed on this board.

 

[somerset]

It's true that to create genuine equality you need redistribution of wealth, a massive extension of democracy throughout society and an end to systems of privilege in this country like public schools - and guess what, it won't surprise you that I'm in favour of that too. How about you?

Just who's wealth do we need to redistribute and to whom?

Isn't this country already ridden with multiple layers of democratic process that do nothing but slow down progress of any kind..... ( Falmer stadium?)

Systems of privilege??!!??.... If the masses having nothing to strive for, no layer of sucess and reward to aim for, we end up with Stalinist Soviet union, and if you didn't notice, that didn't work, although the privieged few in the PARTY of that particular society certainly reaped their rewards.

Once more L I revels in his pseudo-intellectual put downs..... don't bloody let him.

 

[beorhthelm]

Seems fair enough to me, there are many talented women in the membership of B&H Labour Party who could do a fine job as MP for Hove - there is no necessity for all 3 of the city's Labour MPs to be men. Don't people think it would be a good thing if the city had at least one woman MP?

Yep. Good to have women serving as MPs. So why arent there more? Given a selection committee have a set of criteria in front of them can they not match a woman to the roll based on thier qualifications and qualities. Why cant women get in to public office on merit. Never mind, lets not worry about such complicated issues, lets just give them a bye. Job done.

It's true that to create genuine equality you need redistribution of wealth, a massive extension of democracy throughout society and an end to systems of privilege in this country like public schools - and guess what, it won't surprise you that I'm in favour of that too. How about you?

What exactly is *wrong* with public schools? Is it that they give better teaching and produce better students? Your quite right, we shouldnt have them as they show up the sloppy standards in the state schools. Get rid of the public schools and the state schools wouldnt have to try to match their benchmark. Job done.

 

[London Irish]

My current example of 'PC gone mad' is this new law proposed that will stop comedians being able to lampoon religion. You can wave goodbye to ever seeing anything like the 'Life of Brian' again if that comes in.

Tooting Gull, I'm glad to see from your previous that I haven't hurt your feelings too much Anyway, on with the debate, remember it's "PC gone mad" that's the big threat to British society, although the mountainous levels of my patronising posts might be fast catching it up, who knows

The above quote of yours is a classic example of how people like you fall for the big "PC gone mad" lies spun by the likes of the Daily Mail and other rightwing rags.

There is no such law proposed to silence comedians - rightwing commentators are making that up.

What there is, is a debate about the abolition of the age-old Blasphemy Law, the one protecting Christianity that's been on the lawbooks for ages that, funnily enough, didn't stop the Life of Brian but was used by Mary Whitehouse 20 years ago to express her and the British judiciary's hatred of another vulnerable minority group in British society - she used it to censor the "gay" play The Romans in Britain from being staged at the National Theatre.

Now what the Daily Mail and the Murdoch rags is getting their knickers in the twist about is a seperate proposal to introduce a new law on religious incitement to violence.

The reason for this is the increasing sophistication of British neo-nazi groups refining their hate garbage to get round the existing laws on incitement to racial violence that have been on the statute books since the 1970s. Instead of threatening "blacks", and "pakis", the neo-Nazis have got a bit clever and are substituting words like Muslim in order to incite violence against ethnic minorities.

Let's not beat about the bush here. Neo-nazi terrorist attacks against vulnerable minority groups like British Asians have increased massively since 9/11. The neo-Nazis are taking advantage of the current moral panic over terrorism to step up their racist attacks.

Civilised people like you and I need to respond and a law on inciting religious violence is an appropriate weapon to use against the neo-Nazis. It will be modelled on the race hatred legislation of the 1970s that has served us so well in keeping the real hoodlum element of the far right in Britain constantly on the run.

Of course the Daily Mail and other rightwing loudmouths in the 1970s made the same complaints about the race relations legislation back then - that it would limit free speech. Bollocks then as is their self-serving "PC gone mad" bullshit now - the Race Relations Act of the 1970s has been a massive success in creating a more integrated Britain where minorities have some protection against the tooled-up fascists.

Any new legislation is all about smashing those same British neo-Nazi bastards, these people who are spirtual heirs of those who gave us the Auschwitz gas chambers and who will deny to this day that there was ever such a thing as Hitler's Final Solution.

So, here's the truth.

We don't live in a Britain where "PC is gone mad". We live in a Britain where some policy-makers are trying their hardest to protect vulnerable groups from racist attacks.

It's a shame we have disgusting rags like the Daily Mail and the Sun who will pervert the truth so much. But the responsibility is yours not to swallow their garbage.

 

[Simster]

Yep. Good to have women serving as MPs. So why arent there more? Given a selection committee have a set of criteria in front of them can they not match a woman to the roll based on thier qualifications and qualities. Why cant women get in to public office on merit. Never mind, lets not worry about such complicated issues, lets just give them a bye. Job done.




What exactly is *wrong* with public schools? Is it that they give better teaching and produce better students? Your quite right, we shouldnt have them as they show up the sloppy standards in the state schools. Get rid of the public schools and the state schools wouldnt have to try to match their benchmark. Job done.

Whilst I agree that disbanding public schools is not the way forward, I have to disagree with your reasoning. Public schools are not there as a benchmark for the state system. How can they be? State schools don't have 15 to a class, a wealth of literature/sports facilities at their disposal, or the ability to pay their teachers to work on Saturdays. And in the end, they relieve the burden on the state system.

 

[Brixtaan]

PC is irrelevant and media hype ,it's just a term used to describe the progress of a nation.
This country is heading in the right direction concerning equal rights/racial equality and the general well-being of it's citizens.
This is all because of the furore over the use of words and the fight against sexist/racist behaviour/language on an every day basis.

Am i PC when i watch comedies from only 20 yrs ago using terms like 'gollywog', and find myself cringing? Or is it just dated,retarded,unfunny rubbish that thankfully we've moved on from?

 

[Hungry Joe]

PC is irrelevant and media hype ,it's just a term used to describe the progress of a nation.
This country is heading in the right direction concerning equal rights/racial equality and the general well-being of it's citizens.
This is all because of the furore over the use of words and the fight against sexist/racist behaviour/language on an every day basis.

Am i PC when i watch comedies from only 20 yrs ago using terms like 'gollywog', and find myself cringing? Or is it just dated,retarded,unfunny rubbish that thankfully we've moved on from?

Well put and I agree what you describe is progress. I think PC is a loose term that started off with good intentions but has now been applied in a negative sense to the tiny campaigning minority who want to take that progress to the nth degree, and in doing so alienate many reasonable minded people and create more intollerance. This was the great failing of positive discrimination in the 80's and early 90's.

 

[El Presidente]

I am disgusted that as well as no black players, there were no British Asians, Chinese or Women players featured.

What type of message is this sending out to our children?

 

[London Irish]

Yep. Good to have women serving as MPs. So why arent there more? Given a selection committee have a set of criteria in front of them can they not match a woman to the roll based on thier qualifications and qualities. Why cant women get in to public office on merit. Never mind, lets not worry about such complicated issues, lets just give them a bye. Job done.

Does it concern you at all that this is Britain in the year 2005 where women are supposedly equal that there is still a vast disparity between the number of men and women MPs - I mean a VAST disparity, one that has only made minimal progress in narrowing over the last decades? I get the feeling that you're not especially bothered, are you? So, job not done and you don't give a shit.

What exactly is *wrong* with public schools? Is it that they give better teaching and produce better students? Your quite right, we shouldnt have them as they show up the sloppy standards in the state schools. Get rid of the public schools and the state schools wouldnt have to try to match their benchmark. Job done.

Public schools are not about higher standards, they are about ensuring your kids don't mix with anyone from council estates. Job done! They are the biggest block on any real equality of opportunity in Britain. They create an educational apartheid where the wealthy (and a tiny amount of not-so-wealthy people who scrimp and save to pay the fees) buy privilige and access to universities and old-school-tie networks so their children can, regardless of real merit, advance more quickly than the likes of our children attending state schools. Educational standards in state schools will NEVER improve as long as the British establishment can opt out of sending their little darlings there, because no one in power will really give a shit about these schools until their stake in them is personal.