[Football] West ham and Potter

[Me and my Monkey]

I guess the solution if it emerges in the future would be to grass up a goader to see if that might nip it in the bud. Nobody likes a grass mind.

There seem to be quite a few goaders on here. Like badger baiters, dog fighters, or the playground bully who'd throw stones or insults to get a reaction, then run away giggling feeling very pleased with themselves. Nasty minded individuals, in my opinion, who seem to get away with an awful lot.

 

[sparkie]

I never saw HS comments which lead to the original ban - that is one big mystery so I can't form any judgement.

However, if he is under an NSC SUPER injunction not to discuss the subject anymore then he needs to be careful about further comment even if he is being baited to respond. Maybe he should just respond that he is under that SUPER injunction ?

 

[Zeberdi]

Fwiw it seems fair to me.

Me too. Legally (for @Bozza’s sake) and for the sake of other users who find antisemitism (or any discrimination) highly distasteful for personal reasons, I fully agree with the actions taken. This site can survive without HS’s input (albeit interesting, enjoyable and dryly funny most of the time) there are also many interesting, funny, ‘enlightened’ about football posters on NSC - (let’s not make it all about one person) - that’s one of the reasons I joined the forum. Defending against pile ons achieves nothing in my experience, it just perpetuates the pile on (a lesson I’m still coming to grips with myself!) and giving in to the baiters.

Maybe now the thread can get back on track.

 

[Simster]

We had tracked him for years as we do with all our potential managers. You make it sound as if we plucked him out of a bag with our eyes shut. He only had a ‘fabulous team’ until the summer window of 2023/4. By December 2024, with 10 injured, it was far from ‘fabulous’! Yes, he inherited a good team but with that Potter team of 2022/23, he took us to a 6th place finish, the Europas and to Wembley in the SF of the FA Cup. Potter consolidated us as a Premier League Club and helped us develop a possession based style of football that had us for the first time finishing in the top half of the table and beating Big 6 Clubs.

Not sure what “wish list” you are referring to but everybody celebrated the signing of Fati and thought it was a real coup (even at £7-8m!) - the lad was known throughout Europe and before his meniscus injury, for one brilliant debut season, was being widely heralded as the closest thing Barca had produced to Messi. So yes, it was RDZ’s reputation that convinced the lad and his Dad he should leave the La Liga for a season and the personal phone call from him but the Club/David Weir/TB et al, really wanted him and no one, least of all RDZ, could predict he would end up being seriously injured again weeks after he started a loan spell he was suppose to be using to rehab a serious knee injury - otherwise IMO we could have seen a very special comeback.

Anyway we move on, as do our managers.

West Ham may be the the Club that Potter proves himself once and for all he is potentially a good Big Club manager by getting WHU near a good top half finish but with them languishing in 14th place he’s not going to do that unless they sign/borrow some strikers this window (having lost Niclas Fullkrug, Jarrod Bowen and Michail Antonio to long-term injuries) - at the moment that is not looking very promising.

1) Of course we took a chance on him - that doesn't mean we didn't track him though.
2) He did inherit a brilliant team - you can't really argue with that. We were beating everyone in the latter half of Potter's final full season, and were then 5th when he left (6 games in).
3) The wish list: he wanted Fati, and was backed. Dahoud was one of his too I think. Neither worked out.

Anyway, my point is simply that RDZ is treated with kid gloves on here compared to Potter, who gets dogs abuse. Well I don't think either of them left respectfully and pouring scorn on one and not the others seems unfair.

 

[jimhigham]

There is a very significant number of folk who strongly objected to his return when it became obvious that HS is Swansman. There was extensive discussion in Mod Towers about whether he was allowed back, with some mods strongly arguing that he should not be.

In the end, to the permanent disapproval of several users of the site, and some mods, he was allowed back, providing he steered completely clear of certain subjects, in particular discussions about anti-semitism.

I personally agreed with him the ground rules governing his return. He agreed them. He’s reneged. He’s seeing the consequences.

I agree that a month is harsh; it is absolutely intended to be. It is intended to be seen as an absolutely final warning - stay within the boundaries we agreed that governed your return to the site, or never post again; under this name or any other.

I was one of the few mods who advocated for his return. If he cocks this up, he’ll have no advocates. It’s entirely his call - no one made him breach his agreement. No one made him acknowledge in his post that he shouldn’t be posting on that topic.

In the Aaron Sorkin series, The Newsroom, there is a storyline where a reporter (played by Dev Patel) pitches a story about trolling. He proposes hijacking a site, inflaming it to the point where it runs off at a tangent.

I can’t imagine what made me remember that.

The Mods have a tough gig keeping us lot in some sort of order. It must be like herding cats. Angry cats. That are blind. And on ketamine.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

1) Of course we took a chance on him - that doesn't mean we didn't track him though.
2) He did inherit a brilliant team - you can't really argue with that. We were beating everyone in the latter half of Potter's final full season, and were then 5th when he left (6 games in).
3) The wish list: he wanted Fati, and was backed. Dahoud was one of his too I think. Neither worked out.

Anyway, my point is simply that RDZ is treated with kid gloves on here compared to Potter, who gets dogs abuse. Well I don't think either of them left respectfully and pouring scorn on one and not the others seems unfair.

I am still grateful for what Potter did, (and for that matter Chris H). 7+ seasons in the top league in the world.
The feeling people have of Potter is betrayal because he was on the cusp of taking us further than we had ever gone.

RDZ gets off lightly, because like Mullery (and CH) he actually delivered something tangible for us that won't be forgotten by fans, i.e. Europe, playing the best football ever seen by a Brighton side.
The fact it subsequently went sour in 2024 is less relevant to what he achieved in 2023.

 

[Zeberdi]

1) Of course we took a chance on him - that doesn't mean we didn't track him though.

Yes of course, like we ‘take a chance’ on every single recruitment we make, player and staff alike - Data driven recruitment (contrary to other Clubs wanting to buy our magic‘!) isn’t an exact science.

2) He did inherit a brilliant team - you can't really argue with that. We were beating everyone in the latter half of Potter's final full season, and were then 5th when he left (6 games in).

And Potter had us up to 4th place when he left - I definitely wasn’t arguing with you on that but note the second part of my paragraph- it all changed after the 2023/24 summer window. We lost not only Mackie and Moises but returned Levi Colwill who was one of Potters key (back up) defenders in 2021/22* (*EDIT - typo that should read ‘2022/23’)

3) The wish list: he wanted Fati, and was backed. Dahoud was one of his too I think. Neither worked out.

I didn’t see any ‘wish list’ but take your word for it there was a wish list - The only reports I saw from the Club at the time re Ansu, was David Weir saying the Club was delighted to get him - doesn’t sound like RDZ twisted their arm or had to push for him:





I stated the reason above for Fati not working out, he was injured - I’ll give you Dahoud and raise you Pedro .

The Argus stated re Pedro:

‘De Zerbi was very keen to sign the 21-year-old who plays as a forward or on the left…He said: “The first game was incredible, but I knew him very well and pushed with the club to bring him in. I believe in a lot of his quality, his quality is right for our style of play.”’

That of course could be bollix - We honestly don’t know the conversations that go on behind closed doors

Anyway, my point is simply that RDZ is treated with kid gloves on here compared to Potter, who gets dogs abuse. Well I don't think either of them left respectfully and pouring scorn on one and not the others seems unfair.

Well yes but it’s all a little silly.

I don’t know if that is true necessarily that RDZ ‘gets treated with kid gloves’ but many fans are still flying high at the tail end of the euphoria that was Europe. I know I am. It left most of us with a lot to hope for.

If Fabian Hűrzeler gets us another season in Europe, I’m sure RDZ‘s achievements (that currently overshadow his failures because they have not yet been superseded ) , will be consigned to the past and he will be seen in retrospect, just as fairly or unfairly as Potter.

Anyway, can you imaging the outcry here if Potter starts doing well at WHU, gets an offer from Liverpool or Juventus but turns them down because he loves ‘Clubs like WHU’ and wants to get them into Europe the next 5 years in a row?

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Yes of course, like we ‘take a chance’ on every single recruitment we make, player and staff alike - Data driven recruitment (contrary to other Clubs wanting to buy our magic‘!) isn’t an exact science.

And Potter had us in 4th place when he left - I definitely wasn’t arguing with you on that but note the second part of my paragraph- it all changed after the 2023/24 summer window. We lost not only Mackie and Moises but returned Levi Colwill who was one of Potters key defenders in 2021/22.

I didn’t see any ‘wish list’ but take your word for it there was a wish list - The only reports I saw from the Club at the time re Ansu, was David Weir saying the Club was delighted to get him - doesn’t sound like RDZ twisted their arm or had to push for him:





I stated the reason above for Fati not working out, he was injured - I’ll give you Dahoud and raise you Pedro .

The Argus stated re Pedro:

‘De Zerbi was very keen to sign the 21-year-old who plays as a forward or on the left…He said: “The first game was incredible, but I knew him very well and pushed with the club to bring him in. I believe in a lot of his quality, his quality is right for our style of play.”’

That of course could be bollix - We honestly don’t know the conversations that go on behind closed doors

Well yes but it’s all a little silly.

I don’t know if that is true necessarily that RDZ ‘gets treated with kid gloves’ but many fans are still flying high at the tail end of the euphoria that was Europe. I know I am. It left most of us with a lot to hope for.

If Fabian Hűrzeler gets us another season in Europe, I’m sure RDZ‘s achievements (that currently overshadow his failures because they have not yet been superseded ) , will be consigned to the past and he will be seen in retrospect, just as fairly or unfairly as Potter.

Anyway, can you imaging the outcry if Potter starts doing well at WHU, gets an offer from Liverpool or Juventus but turns them down because he loves ‘Clubs like WHU’ and wants to get them into Europe the next 5 years in a row?

Not sure that's true about Pedro.
He publicly stated he hadn't heard of him, and was grateful to the recruitment team for getting him

'I didn't know him' | Roberto De Zerbi oblivious of Joao Pedro prior to signing

Brighton head coach Roberto De Zerbi admits he was not aware of striker Joao Pedro before he joined the club.

www.skysports.com

 

[Kosh]

I would also have handed Kosh a yellow card here, but that's just me.

What for exactly? Calling him out for what he is and waiting for the inevitable to occur?

For years I’ve put up with him resorting to calling me a f***ing C in plain sight of other users, I refused to put up with him sending me expletive laden personal messages with one aim: so he can continue to ridicule me and call me a **** repeatedly in private… he thrives on making irrational passion of fans his prey, he’s a troll and a bully - and one who relishes that role. Sure, I’ve had a go back, but stayed clear of his former bigotry, as I deemed that unfair on him… but he’s nothing if not a martyr and apparently has decided to shoot himself in the foot with the mods… I suspect it’s all a game to him… whilst his acolyte's await the return of the guru Svengali… hmmmmm not for me, unless you have a predilection for reading dull as ditchwater analysis, over and over again. There are far more insightful posts from contributors who aren’t in the habit of being permanently banned from nsc.

He’s seemingly painted as a misunderstood genius, especially by himself… but he’s nothing of the sort, intelligent people don’t hoist themselves by their own petard so readily… ultimately I was amazed he was allowed back on this board… it should never have been allowed, plain and simple.

My guess, eventually he’ll go the way of the other bigots… usually, it’s only a matter of time.

There is no place for it, especially this place.

As a note, I’ve chosen to ignore him and will never interact with him again, fundamentally it’s the right thing to do in the interests of avoiding derailing threads.

Kosh

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That’s harsh imo, it was in the context of replying to someone else (yet again) digging up old corpses wasn’t it ? HS should have a right of reply when someone else starts talking about him, unless you’re happy to see a one-sided pile-on, which we’ll now get (further derailing another thread)

Sad too see NSC polarized. I agree with your comments but understand the ban..

FWIW, had I been part of the moderator discussion at the time I would have made the original ban permanent.
A line was crossed.
And I say that as someone generally happy with HS on NSC and his thoughts about football.
(He is not like certain others who only every make snide political comments backing racists and the like).

When he comes back I hope that the goaders can follow the @Kosh path and just ignore him.
But if he is goaded he will need to have the discipline to put goaders on ignore.

 

[Hiheidi]

Not sure that's true about Pedro.
He publicly stated he hadn't heard of him, and was grateful to the recruitment team for getting him

'I didn't know him' | Roberto De Zerbi oblivious of Joao Pedro prior to signing

Brighton head coach Roberto De Zerbi admits he was not aware of striker Joao Pedro before he joined the club.

www.skysports.com

Yes, additionally Glenn Murray said he told Brighton to look at João Pedro when he was at Watford (at which point De Zerbi was still at Sassuolo).

 

[tstanbur]

And Potter had us in 4th place when he left - I definitely wasn’t arguing with you on that but note the second part of my paragraph- it all changed after the 2023/24 summer window. We lost not only Mackie and Moises but returned Levi Colwill who was one of Potters key defenders in 2021/22.

Colwill wasn’t with us in 21/22.

He played for Potter twice in 22/23 for a total of 12 minutes.

 

[AK74]

I’d also like to know more about RDZ’s mysterious Italian dental appointment.

Tripped over his ego at the training ground and accidentally landed on someone's fist.

Allegedly.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Tripped over his ego at the training ground and accidentally landed on someone's fist.

Allegedly.

My point was more about why this dental appointment happened on a Saturday mid-season when we were playing. I know he had to sit this game out due to a suspension but even so, very odd.

 

[Justice]

I don't really understand why so many people have such extreme opinions on Potter.

For me, the facts are that he took over a dysfunctional Hughton team and slowly changed the way we play,ed for the better, and blooded youngsters (as was his remit). We as fans were EXTREMELY patient with him, but just when it seemed he'd got it right (years later, after some frustrating, barren periods) he upped and left. The second half of his final season was a joy to watch and he left us looking like title/Europe contenders, six games in. What upsets many on here is not so much that he left, but some of the quotes - an easy life, history lesson etc. Fair enough to be upset, there's no reason why fans should like that sort of thing, and it's this that makes us laugh as his failure since leaving.

What I don't like are the double standards compared with RDZ. He didn't leave with fan-unfriendly quotes but his conduct was still shit.

I’m not sure Potters emotional intelligence degree did him any good the man comes across as an ideologue.

 

[Bozza]

I’m not sure Potters emotional intelligence degree did him any good the man comes across as an ideologue.

You say that as if he hasn't joined the PFA Business School as course co-director for the certificate in Football Psychology, Emotional Intelligence and Leadership.

 

[Justice]

You say that as if he hasn't joined the PFA Business School as course co-director for the certificate in Football Psychology, Emotional Intelligence and Leadership.

I did that if it all goes wrong blame the fans

 

[Official Old Man]

In the Aaron Sorkin series, The Newsroom, there is a storyline where a reporter (played by Dev Patel) pitches a story about trolling. He proposes hijacking a site, inflaming it to the point where it runs off at a tangent.

I'm going to calm the mood down by saying I loved The Newsroom. I've watched it in full three times.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

1) Of course we took a chance on him - that doesn't mean we didn't track him though.
2) He did inherit a brilliant team - you can't really argue with that. We were beating everyone in the latter half of Potter's final full season, and were then 5th when he left (6 games in).
3) The wish list: he wanted Fati, and was backed. Dahoud was one of his too I think. Neither worked out.

Anyway, my point is simply that RDZ is treated with kid gloves on here compared to Potter, who gets dogs abuse. Well I don't think either of them left respectfully and pouring scorn on one and not the others seems unfair.

I can't speak for everyone but my problem with Graham Potter was that he took Bruno and Ben Roberts with him. Most managers only take their assistant, and possibly a coach.
I know they weren't coerced and followed the money, but Ben had been with us right back to 2003 when he came on loan.
It's probably my sentimentality, but Bruno declared, once a seagull, always a seagull.


RDZ had his two best players sold, and then had to rebuild, much the same as Fab is doing now. Yes, he threw a strop, because the team didn't strengthen much in January, but he's got a Latin temperament.

 

[nickjhs]

You explicitly agreed with me to never talk about this subject. You have. A month off. It’ll be permanent if you do so on your return.

I see nothing in what he said to me as being in the slightest bit offensive. Are we not allowed to discuss people's reactions to opinions they don't like? I have read his comment several times and other than the tone, I pretty much agree with what he has said.