Well done Eric Pickles

[crookie]

This link is from 2005 and over 11 years old. The link states criminal charges were expected. What was the outcome?

I don't know, but it is pretty damning, don't you think ?

He found six Labour councillors in Birmingham guilty of carrying out "massive, systematic and organised" postal voting fraud to win two wards during last June's elections for the city council. Declaring the results void, he barred the men from standing again in a byelection expected on May 12.

After the judgment the national Labour party suspended the six men. A spokesman said they would be sub ject to a "vigorous disciplinary process". Criminal charges against them are expected. Police said yesterday their inquiries were continuing.

But Mr Mawrey, a deputy high court judge who has sat through four weeks of evidence that thousands of postal votes were stolen to be changed or filled in by Labour supporters, said the fraud was not the actions of a "few hotheads". It was carried out with the full knowledge and cooperation of the local Labour party and "extensively prevailed" throughout the city, where applications for postal votes soared from 28,000 to 70,000 last year.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Or this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32428648

This link is about someone who ran a smear campaign and not about the thread topic of illegal voting.

Given your previous post was from an 2005 and this one isn't about the correct topic I'll hazard a guess and suggest you typed "electoral fraud" into Google and posted the returns without reading them?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't know, but it is pretty damning, don't you think ?

At the moment no, I don't. See above.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm just going by what [MENTION=5001]The Merry Prankster[/MENTION] posted. It's not something I've researched myself. Is it more wide spread?

ill post it again, but seems there are concerns about it.
http://www.electoralcommission.org....64609/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

seems like a prudent idea for photo id to vote, especially if they are going to chuck out a free scheme for voter id for those that currently have no photo id at all. Would have thought everyone would agree curbing voter fraud should be a welcome idea even if it isnt widespread.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

ill post it again, but seems there are concerns about it.
http://www.electoralcommission.org....64609/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

The second paragraph of the executive summary of your link states

"Despite some high-profile cases in recent years when fraud has been detected and punished, there is no evidence to suggest that there have been widespread, systematic attempts to undermine or interfere with recent elections through electoral fraud."

Am I missing something?

"

 

[crookie]

This link is about someone who ran a smear campaign and not about the thread topic of illegal voting.

Given your previous post was from an 2005 and this one isn't about the correct topic I'll hazard a guess and suggest you typed "electoral fraud" into Google and posted the returns without reading them?

Didn't you read this then ?

Their lawyers made a series of allegations, including "personation" in postal voting and at polling stations and ballot paper tampering.
The Election Commissioner upheld a number of the allegations, including:
Voting fraud: ballots were double-cast or cast from false addresses
False statements made against Mr Rahman's rival Mr Biggs
Bribery: large amounts of money were given to organisations who were "totally ineligible or who failed to meet the threshold for eligibility"
Treating: providing free food and drink to encourage people to vote for Mr Rahman
Spiritual influence: voters were told that it was their duty as Muslims to vote for Mr Rahman. Mr Mawrey cited a letter signed by 101 Imams in Bengali stating it was people's "religious duty" to vote.

If you don't think there are any issues then fine, stick your head in the sand. I know you are a Labour supporter and these cases are embarrassing. I have no political axe to grind here, I just find the fact that things like this carry on extremely disturbing. If you don't that's fine. I am also inclined to believe that in our PC obsessed society anything that does actually come out is likely to be the tip of an iceberg rather than the exception.

 

[pastafarian]

The second paragraph of the executive summary of your link states

"Despite some high-profile cases in recent years when fraud has been detected and punished, there is no evidence to suggest that there have been widespread, systematic attempts to undermine or interfere with recent elections through electoral fraud."

Am I missing something?

"

everything after the second paragraph.

am i reading you correctly? even though there is some voter fraud, its not enough to be worried about and have id to vote.
im not sure thats a sound basis for an arguement.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

[MENTION=27870]crookie[/MENTION], [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION]. Are either of you actually reading what you post? I feel my time is being wasted scanning your links for the reasons I have picked up on. I'm all for tightening up voting but a link from 2005 with no conclusion, a link about an entirely different issue and another which tells me there isn't a major issue aren't really suggesting this is a big problem. I this is the best you can do I'll simply have to conclude it's a non-issue. I'm going to sleep now.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Didn't you read this then ?

Their lawyers made a series of allegations, including "personation" in postal voting and at polling stations and ballot paper tampering.
The Election Commissioner upheld a number of the allegations, including:
Voting fraud: ballots were double-cast or cast from false addresses
False statements made against Mr Rahman's rival Mr Biggs
Bribery: large amounts of money were given to organisations who were "totally ineligible or who failed to meet the threshold for eligibility"
Treating: providing free food and drink to encourage people to vote for Mr Rahman
Spiritual influence: voters were told that it was their duty as Muslims to vote for Mr Rahman. Mr Mawrey cited a letter signed by 101 Imams in Bengali stating it was people's "religious duty" to vote.

If you don't think there are any issues then fine, stick your head in the sand. I know you are a Labour supporter and these cases are embarrassing. I have no political axe to grind here, I just find the fact that things like this carry on extremely disturbing. If you don't that's fine. I am also inclined to believe that in our PC obsessed society anything that does actually come out is likely to be the tip of an iceberg rather than the exception.

"their lawyers made a series of allegations"

Your still posting unproven and spurious allegations.

As an aside, I'm not suggesting things don't happen, more it's seemingly a non-issue. If it's an issue just post the figures of fraudulent votes, this is all you need to do. If you provide some validated figures for wide-scale abuse then few will disagree with you. All the while you're flapping around and scrapping the barrel like you are ill just have to assume the opposite.

 

[pastafarian]

[MENTION=27870]crookie[/MENTION], [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION]. Are either of you actually reading what you post? I feel my time is being wasted scanning your links for the reasons I have picked up on. I'm all for tightening up voting but a link from 2005 with no conclusion, a link about an entirely different issue and another which tells me there isn't a major issue aren't really suggesting this is a big problem. I this is the best you can do I'll simply have to conclude it's a non-issue. I'm going to sleep now.

the commission seems to conclude there are and have been issues and potential issues in the future if not addressed and suggests photo id
perhaps you didnt read their whole report
im done as well, driving to Germany tomorrow.......dont eat all the pork knuckles tubby,save some for me

 

[crookie]

"their lawyers made a series of allegations"

Your still posting unproven and spurious allegations.

As an aside, I'm not suggesting things don't happen, more it's seemingly a non-issue. If it's an issue just post the figures of fraudulent votes, this is all you need to do. If you provide some validated figures for wide-scale abuse then few will disagree with you. All the while you're flapping around and scrapping the barrel like you are ill just have to assume the opposite.

It says the allegations were upheld by the Electoral commissioner.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

im done as well, driving to Germany tomorrow.......dont eat all the pork knuckles tubby,save some for me

Okay dokey. Have a safe journey. I'm actually in Barcelona at the moment so you can have a free run on the pork knuckles...save some for me

 

[Swillis]

The question was about whether these are needed for voting.

That's rich, the German public relations ambassador asking me about Germany. They have to produce it if asked.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It says the allegations were upheld by the Electoral commissioner.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

Okay. I understand. But, as I have already stated I'm not suggesting things don't happen, more it's seemingly a non-issue. If it's a big issue just post the figures of fraudulent votes, this is all you need to do. If you provide some validated figures for wide-scale abuse then few will disagree with you.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But I can use my passport for all of these. I don't follow your point about my life being easier due to an ID card.

I'm not sure that your passport would be sufficient as it is not a proof of address. You would also need to produce something like recent utility bills etc. ID cards are more convenient because they contain proof of identity, address and national insurance number (or local equivalent) because you have already produced these documents when issued with the card. You are effectively already passing all of the information contained in an ID card but in an inconvenient manner. In countries with ID cards all that is needed is the card.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Of course there should be checks. One can't even collect a parcel from the Post Office without producing I D . Why not the more important issue of voting?
When I voted ,first time ever, in the E U referendum I was amazed at how lax it was. The lady asked my name and adddress, crossed me off her list and handed me a ballot paper. I could have been anybody.

I don't like the anti Muslim slant in the o/p paper article , even if a lot of fraud goes on in such areas. If my next door neighbour has to present I D the rule should be the same for me.

 

[darkwolf666]

Of course there should be checks. One can't even collect a parcel from the Post Office without producing I D . Why not the more important issue of voting?
When I voted ,first time ever, in the E U referendum I was amazed at how lax it was. The lady asked my name and adddress, crossed me off her list and handed me a ballot paper. I could have been anybody.

I don't like the anti Muslim slant in the o/p paper article , even if a lot of fraud goes on in such areas. If my next door neighbour has to present I D the rule should be the same for me.

While I agree with you in principle I also understand the reasoning - it is the very areas you say are being targeted that have given the majority of the problems, if the analysis is correct.

As an example in a previous role I had to identify suspects of robberies in Croydon, now it would have been no good me sending officers out to look for just anyone, if the analysis said that a certain age group and ethnicity was the offender...

 

[mune ni kamome]

Just microchip all of us

 

[Bob!]

It is not exactly hard to get a passport...

£72.50 is a lot of money just to vote for many people.

If the Government were to be properly democratic about this they should make ID cards compulsory and FREE.

 

[The Clamp]

Missing the point entirely. If you're not going abroad, it's not a problem, but should you be expected to pay £70 just to enable you to exercise your right to vote? No, of course not; identification should be provided free, or at most at minimal cost, for those not needing a passport or driving licence.

But you are going to need one to vote. So if he's intending to vote, he'll need one. So he does need one regardless of whether he wants to travel or not.