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Well done Eric Pickles



Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
The concept of an ID card is fundamentally un-British and anti-libertarian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006


"The World War I identity card scheme was highly unpopular, though accepted in the light of the prevailing national emergency. It is possible to take a small measure of how the national identity scheme was received from remarks by the historian A. J. P. Taylor in his English History, 1914–1945, where he describes the whole thing as an "indignity" and talks of the Home Guard "harassing" people for their cards.[63]

After the Second World War the government of Clement Attlee decided to continue the scheme in the face of the Cold War and the perceived Soviet threat, though it grew ever less popular. In the mind of the public it was more and more associated with bureaucratic interference and regulation, reflected, most particularly, in the 1949 comedy film Passport to Pimlico. Identity cards also became the subject of a celebrated civil liberties case in 1950. Clarence Henry Willcock, a member of the Liberal Party, refused to produce his after being stopped by the police. During his subsequent trial he argued that identity cards had no place in peace time, a defence rejected by the magistrate’s court. In his subsequent appeal, Willcock v Muckle, the judgment of the lower court was upheld.

Protest reached Parliament, where the Conservative and Liberal peers voiced their anger over what they saw as "Socialist card-indexing". After the defeat of the Labour Government in the general election of October 1951 the incoming Conservative administration of Winston Churchill was pledged to get rid of the scheme, "to set the people free", in the words of one minister. Cheers rang out when on 21 February 1952 the Minister for Health, Harry Crookshank, announced in the House of Commons that national identity cards were to be scrapped. This was a popular move, adopted against the wishes of the police and the security services, though the decision to repeal the 1939 legislation was, in significant part, driven by the need for economies. By 1952 national registration was costing £500,000 per annum (equivalent to £13,000,000 in 2015) and required 1500 civil servants to administer it."
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,697
The Fatherland
Agreed, an ID card shows membership of a community. They work well in places I have lived in abroad and make life easier precisely because it becomes easier to prove identity.

How did it make your life easier? Conversely, I've never had an ID card and don't feel my life has been impeded.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,186
Gloucester
Do you think there won't be an option for people without driving license or passport?

identification should be provided free, or at most at minimal cost, for those not needing a passport or driving licence.
"Identification should be provided free, or at most at minimal cost" - that is what most people would think of as an "option for people without driving licence or passport". Do you just read the first4 line of a post before replying to it? There certainly should be such an option, yes. Do I trust the Government to take into account the cost to individuals when introducing legislation? No, I don't.

Or do you condone electrorial fraud?
That really is a silly question. I don't approve of electoral fraud either. Do you?
 


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
The concept of an ID card is fundamentally un-British and anti-libertarian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006


"The World War I identity card scheme was highly unpopular, though accepted in the light of the prevailing national emergency. It is possible to take a small measure of how the national identity scheme was received from remarks by the historian A. J. P. Taylor in his English History, 1914–1945, where he describes the whole thing as an "indignity" and talks of the Home Guard "harassing" people for their cards.[63]

After the Second World War the government of Clement Attlee decided to continue the scheme in the face of the Cold War and the perceived Soviet threat, though it grew ever less popular. In the mind of the public it was more and more associated with bureaucratic interference and regulation, reflected, most particularly, in the 1949 comedy film Passport to Pimlico. Identity cards also became the subject of a celebrated civil liberties case in 1950. Clarence Henry Willcock, a member of the Liberal Party, refused to produce his after being stopped by the police. During his subsequent trial he argued that identity cards had no place in peace time, a defence rejected by the magistrate’s court. In his subsequent appeal, Willcock v Muckle, the judgment of the lower court was upheld.

Protest reached Parliament, where the Conservative and Liberal peers voiced their anger over what they saw as "Socialist card-indexing". After the defeat of the Labour Government in the general election of October 1951 the incoming Conservative administration of Winston Churchill was pledged to get rid of the scheme, "to set the people free", in the words of one minister. Cheers rang out when on 21 February 1952 the Minister for Health, Harry Crookshank, announced in the House of Commons that national identity cards were to be scrapped. This was a popular move, adopted against the wishes of the police and the security services, though the decision to repeal the 1939 legislation was, in significant part, driven by the need for economies. By 1952 national registration was costing £500,000 per annum (equivalent to £13,000,000 in 2015) and required 1500 civil servants to administer it."

Yes, sounds about right that ID cards were abolished by the Tories as their entire platform is anti community and all
about the individual.
 






beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,015
i think this is another excuse to bring in ID cards by the back door, not to address electoral fraud. the main problem with electoral fraud, hinted at in the article, is postal voting. multiple people will be registered at an addess who dont exist, or do exist but have their voting form filled in for them. an ID card wont help at all here.
 


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
How did it make your life easier? Conversely, I've never had an ID card and don't feel my life has been impeded.

Opening services and bank accounts, signing rental agreements, proof of health insurance when treated at a hospital, fast tracking through the airport as a resident of the country. Actually, I would argue that you do have an ID card. It is your passport. You probably use it to prove your identity more than you do for travelling. An actual ID card is just a more convenient version.
 






Swillis

Banned
Dec 10, 2015
1,568
[MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION], aren't there ID cards and proof of identity for voting required in Germany ?

Germans have to have either an identity card or a passport.

According to the German law of obligation of identification, it is compulsory for all German citizens age 16 or older to possess either an identity card or a passport. While police officers and some other officials have a right to demand to see one of these documents, the law does not stipulate that one is obliged to submit the document at that very moment.

As everyone in Germany must possess an ID card or a passport, acceptance of other official documents (like driving licences) as proof of identity is not guaranteed, especially for old driving licences with less security. Driving licences issued before 2013 are not replaced in Germany, so the same document is kept.

German citizens travelling inside Europe (except Belarus, Russia and Ukraine) or to Egypt, Georgia, Turkey and on organized tours to Morocco and Tunisia can use their ID card, which is a machine-readable travel document, instead of a passport.[1]

Just like German passports, German identity cards are valid for ten years (six years if the holder is under 24 on the date of issue).

The ID card currently costs €28.80 (€22.80 if the holder is under 24 on the date of issue).
 








portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
17,949
portslade
Didn't Maggie Thatcher try to get ID cards accepted but got absolutely flamed by all and sundry as it was perceived to be an attack on our human rights ?. Seems the same people now think it's a good idea as it suits a particular argument.
 


m20gull

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
3,478
Land of the Chavs
Didn't Maggie Thatcher try to get ID cards accepted but got absolutely flamed by all and sundry as it was perceived to be an attack on our human rights ?. Seems the same people now think it's a good idea as it suits a particular argument.
The then Tory government was correctly prevented from introducing a completely unnecessary ID card scheme. That is not the same as requiring votes to demonstrate they are who they say they are. I am always surprised that I can rock up to the polling station and give a name and address (available to all from the electoral roll) with no checks.
 






mothy

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2012
2,283
I thought the over righteous fat **** had finally done something useful & died
 




TheJasperCo

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2012
4,612
Exeter
Let's hope the same won't apply for polls voting for player/goal/manager of the season.

The good folks of NSC wouldn't stand a chance :lolol:
 






Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,652
Always found it odd you don't even need your polling card. Just tell them your name and address. Anyone could give those details and vote, when you turn up later you can't vote. I guess it doesn't happen otherwise there would be uproar

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

I questioned this at the last election at the polling booth, when they just asked for my name and address, and did not ask for the polling card. What is then to stop you, say early morning, giving the name of a neighbour in a very marginal constituency, if you know they are politically different, and taking their vote, then getting a mate to claim they are you, knowing that your vote will not have been registered?
 


Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,748
LOONEY BIN
I questioned this at the last election at the polling booth, when they just asked for my name and address, and did not ask for the polling card. What is then to stop you, say early morning, giving the name of a neighbour in a very marginal constituency, if you know they are politically different, and taking their vote, then getting a mate to claim they are you, knowing that your vote will not have been registered?

I shall be in Hastings very early at the NEXT election to vote LABOUR for you
 


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