[Politics] Wealth Inequality

[pb21]

My instinctive feeling is that wealth inequality is too large and that it would be beneficial if it were narrower. It’s obviously impossible, to know what it should be though.

I think it’s fair and reasonable to expect there to be some distribution, but IMO it’s too skewed and, like gravity, the skew attracts more skew over time and not though actual work or increse value proportionate to that increase. I think if it were more proportional it would actually increase overall incentivisation benefit everyone.

 

[Comrade Sam]

So when you hear people whining about how awful the 1970s were, with the power of the unions etc - there's a reason. That was the time when the gap between rich and poor was at it's narrowest in the modern era. Now thanks to the Thatcherite revolution and neo liberalism the gap is now at its widest.
I assume that the world's rich bulshitting rebels - Trump, Farage, Erdogan, Modi etc. have no real interest in reversing this trend.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I've been watching this guy dumpster diving on YouTube, thousands of pounds worth of goods and food dumped every day by companies. At one point I had 4 bins in my kitchen for recycling, now I've stopped caring..

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Would you define Starmer's record so far as 'dull but competent'?
Freezing pensioners and mortgage payers might beg to differ.

Stories about freezing pensioners have been happening every year for my entire life. And having a right wing owned media will only exacerbate that narrative.

As for the mortgage payers… do you remember Liz Truss?

 

[MikeHimself]

19th century music hall had it pretty much spot on.
It‘s the same the whole world over
It‘s the poor what gets the blame
It’s the rich what gets the pleasure
Ain’t it all a blooming shame.

Adapted by British Soldiers in World War 1, it’s the refrain from “She was poor but she was honest”

 

[portlock seagull]

19th century music hall had it pretty much spot on.
It‘s the same the whole world over
It‘s the poor what gets the blame
It’s the rich what gets the pleasure
Ain’t it all a blooming shame.

Adapted by British Soldiers in World War 1, it’s the refrain from “She was poor but she was honest”

"They hang the man and flog the woman..." et al

 

[zefarelly]

But people need considerable wealth to acquire assets and investments - which then generate more wealth.

Usually those investments profit at the expense of the majority . . . . Blocks of rented flats for example.

 

[zefarelly]

They’d do what companies do and sell their unused quota to companies that want more. So net carbon doesn’t lessen, it just gets redistributed.

Like all the money . . .from poor to rich.

 

[zefarelly]

Stories about freezing pensioners have been happening every year for my entire life. And having a right wing owned media will only exacerbate that narrative.

As for the mortgage payers… do you remember Liz Truss?

I was trying to buy my first flat in fear of redundancy late 91 . . . There were people in the office in cold sweats when interest rates went over 12 percent . . . the fuckwits voted tory twice again!

 

[Professor Plum]

So when you hear people whining about how awful the 1970s were, with the power of the unions etc - there's a reason. That was the time when the gap between rich and poor was at it's narrowest in the modern era. Now thanks to the Thatcherite revolution and neo liberalism the gap is now at its widest.
I assume that the world's rich bulshitting rebels - Trump, Farage, Erdogan, Modi etc. have no real interest in reversing this trend.

Both Thatcher AND the unions were bloody appalling in the 70s/80s. They’re not mutually exclusive.

 

[Professor Plum]

Stories about freezing pensioners have been happening every year for my entire life. And having a right wing owned media will only exacerbate that narrative.

As for the mortgage payers… do you remember Liz Truss?

A good proportion of the media is left-leaning. Neither side seems to recognise the existence of their own lot.

 

[Comrade Sam]

Both Thatcher AND the unions were bloody appalling in the 70s/80s. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Is that your take then? Thatcher decided workers were having too much of the pie and should be made to bow down to the profit motive. She was the saviour of the rich and the defeat of the unions lead to the destruction of manufacturing, social housing, the privatisation of our amenities, the decline of our social services, an imbalance in the tax system, the expansion of the city, the growth of personal debt, the end of overtime and job security. How dare unions think that those that make the wealth should share in it.
There was a documentary on recently about all the strife at Ford in the 1970s and how unreasonable the unions were, striking all the time. Then it slipped out casually that even in the years with the most industrial action, Ford made a profit.

 

[Comrade Sam]

A good proportion of the media is left-leaning. Neither side seems to recognise the existence of their own lot.

If you mean they support Labour, does that really make them left leaning? It's not a very good proportion.

 

[zefarelly]

If you mean they support Labour, does that really make them left leaning? It's not a very good proportion.

I think he means that they've had a balance education and can make measured/considered comment.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Is that your take then? Thatcher decided workers were having too much of the pie and should be made to bow down to the profit motive. She was the saviour of the rich and the defeat of the unions lead to the destruction of manufacturing, social housing, the privatisation of our amenities, the decline of our social services, an imbalance in the tax system, the expansion of the city, the growth of personal debt, the end of overtime and job security. How dare unions think that those that make the wealth should share in it.
There was a documentary on recently about all the strife at Ford in the 1970s and how unreasonable the unions were, striking all the time. Then it slipped out casually that even in the years with the most industrial action, Ford made a profit.

Lets not forget that when Ford make a profit the shareholders will contain many pension funds that actually end up paying out to the very workers that were striking

 

[Iggle Piggle]

depends on what "the problem" is. so far your just saying the problem is someone is richer than thou. from the perspective of a subsistance farmer in Bangledesh, you are considerable richer, you're part of the problem too. whats the real problem concerning everyone here? what gets fixed when we take away all the concentrated wealth?

Musk makes more in an hour than most of us do in a year. Whilst this isn't new, at least the likes of Bill Gates used to have charitable donations and keep themselves to themselves. The problem with Musk having an obscene amount of money is that he is a massive prick with it and thinks he is a real life Bond Villain.

My soution to this problem? I'd introduce a global bell end tax. He'd be potless in no time.

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm a fully bought up member of socialist ideals as I've got older, hopefully a bit wiser, and indeed wealthier. And no I don't drink champagne, prefer Harveys thank you. But the point I'd like to make is wealth should be capped. In a world of 10 billion people, if however you've managed to 'get' say 10 million pounds then everything above is re-distributed by whatever means. End of. You simply don't need 00's of millions, or even more grossly, billions, to live more than comfortably. It only leads to more problems e.g. wars and environmental destruction.

Of course, these ideals are also total fantasy because greed, selfishness, vanity, ego, corruption, narcism, nepotism...all these make the world the place it has been past, present and future. Sadly. At the core of the problem are our beliefs, not least that "some are more equal than others." Until that one in particular changes, which it never will, it's a case of head down, do your level best not to be a dick towards others whilst trying to enjoy / make the best of what life brings IMO. But it is hard not to disintegrate mentally when you see what every "Napoleon" is gorging on at the top table of this world. Without any morals. None whatsoever.

 

[Professor Plum]

Is that your take then? Thatcher decided workers were having too much of the pie and should be made to bow down to the profit motive. She was the saviour of the rich and the defeat of the unions lead to the destruction of manufacturing, social housing, the privatisation of our amenities, the decline of our social services, an imbalance in the tax system, the expansion of the city, the growth of personal debt, the end of overtime and job security. How dare unions think that those that make the wealth should share in it.
There was a documentary on recently about all the strife at Ford in the 1970s and how unreasonable the unions were, striking all the time. Then it slipped out casually that even in the years with the most industrial action, Ford made a profit.

She didn’t think they were ‘having too much of the pie’. That was never part of her dogma from what I remember. She was all for people increasing personal wealth. Perhaps misguided but it was the idea underpinning privatisation, Tell Sid, council house sales etc. It was the undemocratic nature of unions that Thatcherism railed against. Closed shops, block votes, secondary picketing, strike votes carried and leaders elected on 2 or 3% of the vote etc. That was the thrust of the 1979 campaign.

 

[Professor Plum]

I'm a fully bought up member of socialist ideals as I've got older, hopefully a bit wiser, and indeed wealthier.

I’ve gone the other way. I’m still economically left wing but socially more conservative. It’s a very common shift for older people to make. Unfortunately the only party even vaguely representative of that viewpoint is Reform but I can’t support them for other reasons eg their cosying up to Putin and Trump. I’m effectively homeless when it comes to electoral choices.

 

[portlock seagull]

I’ve gone the other way. I’m still economically left wing but socially more conservative. It’s a very common shift for older people to make. Unfortunately the only party even vaguely representative of that viewpoint is Reform but I can’t support them for other reasons eg their cosying up to Putin and Trump. I’m effectively homeless when it comes to electoral choices.

I totally understand that. I was talking about ideals mind. Finding a political party that aligns is altogether different! Nothing exists in reality and never has done. Communism was/is gangsters purporting to be socialists. It’s the human condition. Ideals are great. Then ‘we’ put them into practice terribly, left right and centre (see what I did there btw?!)