[Albion] We are no better than last season

[vagabond]

So why not talk about it more (not as much as me as I'm sure I bore most )? It's his biggest failing, You can still support him while talking about it..

No one was more pissed off and frustrated with our performance and result at Sheff Utd than me.

We have drawn far too many games this season. But having watched most of them the fine margins are quite evident. Most of these draws we were the dominant team and arguably deserved more. That’s the challenge for GP, the players and the staff to improve next year.

 

[andy1980]

No one was more pissed off and frustrated with our performance and result at Sheff Utd than me.

We have drawn far too many games this season. But having watched most of them the fine margins are quite evident. Most of these draws we were the dominant team and arguably deserved more. That’s the challenge for GP, the players and the staff to improve next year.

Thats the challenge for everyone every year. We have drawn too many games, but we also need to learn how to win against teams around us aswell.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

You can't just call it 'outers' or solely about Potter – the fact is in our 4th season in this league we're 17th with just 34 pts from 33 games with 33 goals. In 2019 when Hughton lost his job, we were 33 pts from 33 games with 32 goals.

There is no denying or dressing up where we are, so it isn't just a shoulder shrug and 'oh well it was a poor performance', there will no doubt be a real post mortem at the end of the season to establish where so much promise has led to so little reward.

So whether you are Potter In or Out, and I'm a big fat In, results just haven't been good enough and we can't go into next season without really having a good understanding of what can be identified as needing the most improvement, whether that is recruitment, coaching, tactics, preparation etc.

This isn't about "outers" and "Inners" for me either, but depressingly the majority of the opinions expressed are often along those lines. I agree with what you say, but let me pick up on 3 specifics :
So much promise : that is the key difference for me this season, building on last season. The league table stats are what they are but I cannot agree that the performances, in the majority of games are not different or improved. There is so much promise, so many more "nearly" moments where I, and I think lots of others (outside of the club too) think we have moved on.
That is also the reason why it is different to the benchmarking vs. CH's last half season. There appeared little or no promise of improvement at the time.
Results have been good enough in many of the games - they have been very few terrible performances. There have been results that have been disappointing, of course, but I don't think we can say "results have not been good enough". We have got something from 20 of our 33 games so far. The 3 points may not have come against the teams that betting companies might have expected them to, but the performances have warranted them.
So, there will be a "post-mortem" if we get relegated, but otherwise a review of the season and I think that the gaps needed for a comfortable mid-table finish that we all yearn for, however we express that here, are relatively small - not easy to fix, but really do feel like fine margins rather than over-haul. If we are in the same place this time next season, then I will also question the reality of progress. So a shrug of the shoulders is not quite my approach to Saturday, but it is not further evidence of anything else than work to do, any more or less than Chelsea away was evidence of what we are capable of.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Without tackling the whole thing, improving every season by season is mathematically impossible unless someone starts the Galactic Super League. However, finishing every season on around 40 points in around 16th place simply reinforces that Poyet may have had a point about our "ceiling".

If the top brass are going to make noises about 10 ten, noises about Europe then it's time to start delivering on it. Shit or get off the Pott.

Well that was the problem. I am all for setting targets but the board should never have mentioned ' top ten ' or ' established top ten ' There is no such thing. To me, it was unrealistic bordering on the extravagant. It raises hopes and expectations too much amongst fans and leaves the board open to be shot at. We all know who the elite clubs are and Everton are on the edge of that group. Leicester are showing all the signs of being in that position as well. So thats 8 clubs who will be in the top half, almost every season. To be ' established top ten ' effectively means gatecrashing that party. Or, you are targetting 9th or 10th every season. That is too specific in a division where the dynamic is constantly changing. It is expecting us to finish above almost all of Villa, Leeds, Wolves, West Ham, Saints, Palace, Newcastle, Burnley etc every season, with a likelihood of less resource than some of these.
I don't believe in ceilings, just what is realistic and attainable in the medium term. Anything can be achieved in the short term ( ask Sheff Utd ) There is nothing to stop us finishing in the top ten. Its maintaining it that is the problem. Its fine margins at this level and however hard you try, there are some things you can't budget for. The extended loss of key players through injury. Selling key players and replacements not quite coming up to expectation. A manager being poached by a bigger club and his replacement having slightly different ideas.
I would like us to talk about ' year on year consolidation ' rather than ' top ten ' or ' established top ten '

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

I know we have no March or Lampty but if you are playing a side that hardly scores a goal and defends you have to have width. Potter paid to make decisions and think he chose wrong one in having same attacking unit as we did against Chelsea.

100% THIS. Chelsea were always going to leave gaps for us to attack because they are a top of the table team and playing at home. United played more like they away team, packing the defence and frankly were just trying not to lose the match. They pretty much like we did when Houghton was in charge - we did the same. when we scored first we tried to literally hang on for the rest of the match, which United did with aplumb

 

[Seasidesage]

You can't just call it 'outers' or solely about Potter – the fact is in our 4th season in this league we're 17th with just 34 pts from 33 games with 33 goals. In 2019 when Hughton lost his job, we were 33 pts from 33 games with 32 goals.

There is no denying or dressing up where we are, so it isn't just a shoulder shrug and 'oh well it was a poor performance', there will no doubt be a real post mortem at the end of the season to establish where so much promise has led to so little reward.

So whether you are Potter In or Out, and I'm a big fat In, results just haven't been good enough and we can't go into next season without really having a good understanding of what can be identified as needing the most improvement, whether that is recruitment, coaching, tactics, preparation etc.

I agree no blank cheque but the answer is reasonably simple to identify, not so easy to solve. Goals pure and simple, we pass the ball well, we defend well, we create a lot of chances, we don't score enough, another 10 goals over the season from this squad probably bumps us 7-10 places up this league. We weren't at our best Sat but in all the hand wringing and general irritation at the performance does anyone think Sheff U were the better side? Clearly they weren't but that has been the case for all of the teams we have played around us. We are significantly better side than all of them but we haven't beaten any of them bar Newcastle, this is not purely a set up or tactics issue its a mentality and talent one and one we need to address in the transfer market as much as the training pitch.

Hughton's side fought for everything they got but how often were they a better team than those they competed against? Not too many, most results were battled for rather than outplaying teams. A win is a win, but this route is more sustainable and remember Chris's teams cycle was ending, results would've tailed off and a rebuild would have been required regardless of who led it.

 

[Badger Boy]

We are no better than last season.

For me, that's a fact. I believe we made a mistake not recruiting a left wing back to at least add cover for Solly March. It was an obvious glaring gap in the squad and it's been exploited by Solly's absence. He was player of the season up until his injury so he's been a big loss. As has Lamptey at right wing back with the thrust and pace he offers. Veltman has been excellent and Gross has also done a really good job there but neither offer what Lamptey does. I think there are enough mitigating circumstances not to hang Potter for us being where we were last season. I am relieved Fulham and West Brom have stunk as much as they have otherwise we'd have been bang in trouble.

We're only 1 win short of safety so there's no need to panic with 5 games to play. I am frustrated by the team, I've said that all season long. There are obvious things which need to improve next season but there's absolutely no argument for changing the manager.

 

[The_Viper]

Imagine looking at that forward line, and seeing the chances we create game after game, seeing world class managers praise our manager, seeing top top players praise our manager, seeing pundits praise our manager, and some gammon on a message board wants him out. If GP was playing himself up front and creating massive amounts of chances and missing them all I'd be all for getting him out, but at this point we simply must back him in the window in the Summer. If we have no intention of backing him then I am 100% fine in sacking him, he's wasted here if we have no intention of strengthening the side in areas we are so embarrassingly weak.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This isn't about "outers" and "Inners" for me either, but depressingly the majority of the opinions expressed are often along those lines. I agree with what you say, but let me pick up on 3 specifics :
So much promise : that is the key difference for me this season, building on last season. The league table stats are what they are but I cannot agree that the performances, in the majority of games are not different or improved. There is so much promise, so many more "nearly" moments where I, and I think lots of others (outside of the club too) think we have moved on.
That is also the reason why it is different to the benchmarking vs. CH's last half season. There appeared little or no promise of improvement at the time.
Results have been good enough in many of the games - they have been very few terrible performances. There have been results that have been disappointing, of course, but I don't think we can say "results have not been good enough". We have got something from 20 of our 33 games so far. The 3 points may not have come against the teams that betting companies might have expected them to, but the performances have warranted them.
So, there will be a "post-mortem" if we get relegated, but otherwise a review of the season and I think that the gaps needed for a comfortable mid-table finish that we all yearn for, however we express that here, are relatively small - not easy to fix, but really do feel like fine margins rather than over-haul. If we are in the same place this time next season, then I will also question the reality of progress. So a shrug of the shoulders is not quite my approach to Saturday, but it is not further evidence of anything else than work to do, any more or less than Chelsea away was evidence of what we are capable of.

Re bit in bold above. That polarisation on here was majorly facilitated by the twunt (you know who you are) that insisted on posting a binary In/Out poll about 30 seconds after every game for weeks on end. Setting fan against fan just for shits and giggles like? Nice!

 

[Stato]

It might be worth mentioning that very few teams are better than last year. The small gap between the two seasons and the relatively quiet transfer markets have meant that two out of three of the promoted sides will probably be going down and at least two of the three relegated sides will be coming back up. Aston Villa started very well, but recently the old defensive issues have returned and they're still poor if Grealish is absent. West Ham are the exception. They solved their defensive organisation problem with Dawson's loan. They already had some very good players and have probably been the team to have most benefited from the absence of fans, given how poisonous things had got at their home matches.

We haven't made progress in scoring goals. We're averaging the same goal a game that we did last year. We've made progress in controlling games and in defensive solidity against the better sides. We all know where our problems lie and, if we are going to make a step forward next year, we'll have to turn long periods of domination into goals, stop the occasional defensive sloppiness / overreaching in pursuit of goals that has given opposition forwards chances in open spaces, and find a way of unlocking the low block sides. A whole season of a fully fit Lamptey could help the latter. Perhaps we fans can also help make the difference ourselves when they let us back into the Amex. I suspect that some of the away teams' backs to the wall defensive performances that have been our undoing at home this year could have been a lot more wobbly had we been able to scare them into a few errors.

The playing style is different, but in tone, Potter seems much like Hughton. He's intelligent, decent, modest and quiet. He's not going to reveal a lot to the media. Some of us will get irritated because we may perceive the forward-defensive approach to interviews as a lack of passion rather than the 'don't get too high, don't get too low' style that the players have praised both managers for. Its probably fair to say that, as fans, its our privilege to rage and throw our toys when things go wrong, but that doing so as a manager probably doesn't do the playing group many favours.

The publishing of the accounts have perhaps suggested good reason why this was not going to be the season to make the big push. We may have to accept that circumstances dictate that it might not be next year either. In the past Tony's investment pushes seem to have come in cycles. The signing of younger prospects suggests that forward planning of the squad is now his preferred way forward. Personally, I would never want our chairman to gamble everything on big signings on big wages. I'm still far too haunted by the memory of considering whether the club would be here for my kids to support. In taking this view, I have to accept the disadvantage too. We are always going to be trying to punch above our weight and that this means that we will occasionally get flattened. To overstretch the metaphor, we've still looked like a cruiser weight fighting the super-heavies. We haven't developed a knockout punch, but we've looked a bit quicker on our feet and more capable of getting a points victory from any opponent. A bit more knowledge of the dark arts in the clinch wouldn't go amiss next year, but it looks like progress rather than regression.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It might be worth mentioning that very few teams are better than last year. The small gap between the two seasons and the relatively quiet transfer markets have meant that two out of three of the promoted sides will probably be going down and at least two of the three relegated sides will be coming back up. Aston Villa started very well, but recently the old defensive issues have returned and they're still poor if Grealish is absent. West Ham are the exception. They solved their defensive organisation problem with Dawson's loan. They already had some very good players and have probably been the team to have most benefited from the absence of fans, given how poisonous things had got at their home matches.

We haven't made progress in scoring goals. We're averaging the same goal a game that we did last year. We've made progress in controlling games and in defensive solidity against the better sides. We all know where our problems lie and, if we are going to make a step forward next year, we'll have to turn long periods of domination into goals, stop the occasional defensive sloppiness / overreaching in pursuit of goals that has given opposition forwards chances in open spaces, and find a way of unlocking the low block sides. A whole season of a fully fit Lamptey could help the latter. Perhaps we fans can also help make the difference ourselves when they let us back into the Amex. I suspect that some of the away teams' backs to the wall defensive performances that have been our undoing at home this year could have been a lot more wobbly had we been able to scare them into a few errors.

The playing style is different, but in tone, Potter seems much like Hughton. He's intelligent, decent, modest and quiet. He's not going to reveal a lot to the media. Some of us will get irritated because we may perceive the forward-defensive approach to interviews as a lack of passion rather than the 'don't get too high, don't get too low' style that the players have praised both managers for. Its probably fair to say that, as fans, its our privilege to rage and throw our toys when things go wrong, but that doing so as a manager probably doesn't do the paying group many favours.

The publishing of the accounts have perhaps suggested good reason why this was not going to be the season to make the big push. We may have to accept that circumstances dictate that it might not be next year either. In the past Tony's investment pushes seem to have come in cycles. The signing of younger prospects suggests that forward planning of the squad is now his preferred way forward. Personally, I would never want our chairman to gamble everything on big signings on big wages. I'm still far too haunted by the memory of considering whether the club would be here for my kids to support. In taking this view, I have to accept the disadvantage too. We are always going to be trying to punch above our weight and that this means that we will occasionally get flattened. To overstretched the metaphor, we've still looked like a cruiser weight fighting the super-heavies. We haven't developed a knockout punch, but we've looked a bit quicker on our feet and more capable of getting a points victory from any opponent. A bit more knowledge of the dark arts in the clinch wouldn't go amiss next year, but it looks like progress rather than regression.

Excellent post. Best on thread.

 

[Marshy]

It might be worth mentioning that very few teams are better than last year. The small gap between the two seasons and the relatively quiet transfer markets have meant that two out of three of the promoted sides will probably be going down and at least two of the three relegated sides will be coming back up. Aston Villa started very well, but recently the old defensive issues have returned and they're still poor if Grealish is absent. West Ham are the exception. They solved their defensive organisation problem with Dawson's loan. They already had some very good players and have probably been the team to have most benefited from the absence of fans, given how poisonous things had got at their home matches.

We haven't made progress in scoring goals. We're averaging the same goal a game that we did last year. We've made progress in controlling games and in defensive solidity against the better sides. We all know where our problems lie and, if we are going to make a step forward next year, we'll have to turn long periods of domination into goals, stop the occasional defensive sloppiness / overreaching in pursuit of goals that has given opposition forwards chances in open spaces, and find a way of unlocking the low block sides. A whole season of a fully fit Lamptey could help the latter. Perhaps we fans can also help make the difference ourselves when they let us back into the Amex. I suspect that some of the away teams' backs to the wall defensive performances that have been our undoing at home this year could have been a lot more wobbly had we been able to scare them into a few errors.

The playing style is different, but in tone, Potter seems much like Hughton. He's intelligent, decent, modest and quiet. He's not going to reveal a lot to the media. Some of us will get irritated because we may perceive the forward-defensive approach to interviews as a lack of passion rather than the 'don't get too high, don't get too low' style that the players have praised both managers for. Its probably fair to say that, as fans, its our privilege to rage and throw our toys when things go wrong, but that doing so as a manager probably doesn't do the paying group many favours.

The publishing of the accounts have perhaps suggested good reason why this was not going to be the season to make the big push. We may have to accept that circumstances dictate that it might not be next year either. In the past Tony's investment pushes seem to have come in cycles. The signing of younger prospects suggests that forward planning of the squad is now his preferred way forward. Personally, I would never want our chairman to gamble everything on big signings on big wages. I'm still far too haunted by the memory of considering whether the club would be here for my kids to support. In taking this view, I have to accept the disadvantage too. We are always going to be trying to punch above our weight and that this means that we will occasionally get flattened. To overstretched the metaphor, we've still looked like a cruiser weight fighting the super-heavies. We haven't developed a knockout punch, but we've looked a bit quicker on our feet and more capable of getting a points victory from any opponent. A bit more knowledge of the dark arts in the clinch wouldn't go amiss next year, but it looks like progress rather than regression.

Top Post

 

[Machiavelli]

Without tackling the whole thing, improving every season by season is mathematically impossible unless someone starts the Galactic Super League. However, finishing every season on around 40 points in around 16th place simply reinforces that Poyet may have had a point about our "ceiling".

If the top brass are going to make noises about 10 ten, noises about Europe then it's time to start delivering on it. Shit or get off the Pott.

Poyet did make that remark about our ceiling 8 years ago, and for half that time we've been in the PL.
But I agree that the top 10 -- or, what's worse, regular top 10 -- was a mistake, and that as others have suggested on here that the mission statement should instead have focused on consolidation and/or slow, steady improvement. We simply don't have the funds to get there on a regular basis. And this brings both y/our points together, each place rising up the table will prove more difficult to achieve, because compared to our rivals, we have a more limited budget.
I actually quite like the strategy of investing in the future rather than blowing the lot on a top strikers wages but, to move up the table, what we need is a better goalscorer than what we have up front and, ideally, one that is tall so we can cause more of a threat to the low/deep block that we've struggled with this season.

 

[rogersix]

2014 is seven years ago. In that time Leicester moved from the Championship to Champions League.

That did cost a few Bob, bw2

 

[rogersix]

Leicester spent £95m on their training ground alone. Ours cost £20m.

How?

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

The top 10 thing.. there is a difference between visions and mission statements, if you're into that sort of thing (and i think our club is)
The mission statement is below : this is why, fundamentally the Club exists. Its available on the website. The Vision is different because typically it is only meant for employees or stakeholders - football is unusual because fans are stakeholders albeit don't "work" for the organisation. Typically a vision should help create a sense of ambition and inspiration (according to Google and many consultants you may/may not want to listen to!) . For us, or most of us at least, they come together in the second bullet point : "Playing professional football at the highest possible level". A vision often crosses the line between realistic/achievable and unrealistic because its meant to inspire a feeling or emotion amongst its stakeholders. It should inspire us as supporters, not be a stick to beat the club with. The Mission statement helps underline that it must be done in a sustainable way and why certain decisions get made or dont get made. Personally, that the Club wants to be top 10 does excite me, but trying it a sustainable way reassures me as does the recognition of the value of club beyond its league position.
I thought it helpful when reading comments about the top 10 thing being an issue or problematic - I really don't think it is, certainly not for the Club anyway.

MISSION STATEMENT
Brighton & Hove Albion Football Club (“the Club”) aims to be a source of civic pride in the City of Brighton and Hove
(“the City”). It will enhance the image and increase national awareness of the “City by the Sea” by:
Playing professional football at the highest possible level.
Managing the Club professionally so as to ensure a sustainable future for top class sport within the City.
Representing and caring for the interests of its supporters and the vibrant and diverse community of Brighton and Hove
by encouraging involvement through liaison and consultation groups.
Developing the potential of young people seeking to achieve sporting excellence.
Expanding the important work of Albion in the Community, creating opportunities for young people who are
disadvantaged or who have special needs, to learn and to take part in sport.
Providing a facility which will attract visitors to the City and create education, training and employment opportunities.
Developing opportunities that recognise and reflect the needs of different community groups in the City. Providing
additional places to play and opportunities to improve standards from grass roots to specialised coaching.
Promoting an understanding of the value to the wider community of sport with accessible and affordable community
spectator facilities, creating top level spectator and participator experience.
Enhancing and promoting the place of football in our City’s heritage and culture, and in the pursuit of sporting and civic
values; through partnerships across the commercial, public and education sectors.

 

[deslynhamsmoustache1]

How?

My thoughts exactly. Unless they train at Sandbanks or Kensington high street that figure has got to be wrong surely.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

How?

The key to Leicester's success for the last 5/6 years has been Jamie Vardy - the guy averages more than 20 goals a season and his pace makes him a threat on every break from defence. Without Vardy Leicester would not have won the PL and would not have stayed competitive since. Getting into the CL in 2016 was worth more than £80million to the club - and they fleeced Chelsea for £35million for Drinkwater, and Man U for £75million for Maguire (and they got £60million for Marhez from Man City as well).

Unless they can replace Vardy (and his production) in the next year or so they will find the PL much tougher going.

On the plus side - they seem to be a well run club - they have a very good manager (more impressive than I expected) - have a good squad - and they keep the ball rolling. Getting into the CL next season will give them a further boost and give them the funds to throw a dart or two at getting Vardy's replacement.

 

[Weststander]

The danger in trying to punch above our weight for 4 seasons and now (someone posts) likely for a 5th season, is that we drop.

Despite best efforts, for 4 seasons we have not over 38 games punched above our weight. A bottom 6 budget and likely a 4th consecutive bottom 6 final placing.

We haven’t done what Leeds, Burnley, CP, Wolves and Stains have achieved.

If we sell Bissouma this summer and do as mooted in that post, not invest in players to breakout in 2021/22, then a relegation in May 2022 is a real possibility.

I think TB will invest in quality this summer.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Same nonsense different day. Everytime we put in a poor performance out come the Potter outers. That was a terrible performance right on the back of a good one at Chelsea where strangely the outers will nowhere to be seen? We are going to stay up, we've made huge strides in evolving the team from last year and especially 2 years ago without the results getting worse. Next season the aim must be to find a consistency of performance and Stat and GB etc are right in highlighting that. We must take advantage of a weak market in europe to bring in some striking options and some goals in midfield. Potter needs to start moving us up the table away from the relegation area. This is his team now and with some good editions I think he'll do just that.

If he doesn't then no one gets a blank cheque with Tony and I'm sure he would make a change if he thought it warranted. It's quite the opposite currently, we've managed to lower the average age, introduce good promising players, improve the style while developing players we can sell on for good money to fund improvements a la Leicester. I'm not sure what magic wand was supposed to be waved that would suddenly make a team with our pulling and spending power into CL contenders? It's a process and we are a couple years into a project that could easily take 10 years to come to fruition...

I think you’re mistaking people who are pissed off with a shit result as people who want Potter out. I think Potter is a very smart manager, but he does have a naive streak in him, our unforgivable results against the bottom 3 highlight this. There are many sensible and well seasoned posters on this board who are vehemently Potter in, but they’ve posted their disappointment at such an inept showing against Sheffield United, that doesn’t mean that they’re suddenly Potter out, but they can spot a weakness in his approach.