War in Middle East - part XXVVVII

[User removed 4]

Knock knock

Someone at the door Steve, ........ oh hang on i'm on it.

Good afternoon are you Mr Foster, erm, yes, what can I do for you?

Well, I'm from the Italian embassy and we need you and your family to vacate these premises today!

WHAT, it's my house, my home, I inherited it from my parents and they got it from their parents who purchased it legaly many years ago?
Ah, well let me explain Mr Foster. We have documentary evidence that our Roman ancestors occupied this land for many centuries about 2000 years ago and we want it back. We have the backing of a foreign country and we have guns so sign here or you will be removed by force.

But I own this, I want to pass it on to my children, I've worked all my life to keep this in good order, I'm not giving it away to some stranger just because his ancestors lived here thousands of years ago!

No Mr Foster, the Italians have allways owned this, we just went away for a, erm, well, a while, but that doesn't mean you can come in and steal it you theiving English bastards.

Look Mr Foster, we have put some tents up on the downs, you cant miss them they are the ones in the barbed wire compound. You should only be there for 40 or 50 years and we will look after you with food and "humanitarian aid" in other words, we will let you have a little of the food we have grown on the allotment we have just stol.... recovered from you, provided you do nothing to try to regain your old property. If you do, we will close the gates and throw handgrenades in.

Oh, OK well I never realised, MARGE, get yer coat were giving our lifes work to this nice Italian man, apparently theres some old document from 1000s of years ago that says it's his and you can't argue with that now can you.[/QUOTE]


such a good post

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What Israel Gave Up in Hopes of Peace - Gaza Withdrawal Aug. 2005

100% proportion of the Gaza Strip evacuated and handed over ( handed BACK ! ) to the
Palestinians. [16]
300 square miles of the West Bank evacuated. [17]
21 Israeli ILLEGAL settlements uprooted in the Gaza Strip. [18]
4 Israeli ILLEGAL settlements uprooted in the West Bank . [19]
48 graves uprooted in Gaza ’s former Gush Katif Cemetery , including six graves of area residents murdered by terrorists (invaders killed by resistance fighters). [20]
9,000 approximate number of Israelis, including 1,700 families, who lived in Gaza and the northern West Bank . All of them were moved out as part of the withdrawal. [21]
38 ILLEGALLY CONSTRUCTED synagogues dismantled in the Gaza Strip. [22]
5,000 school-age children who had to find new schools. [23]
42 daycare centers that were closed in the Gaza Strip. [24]
36 kindergartens that were closed in the Gaza Strip. [25]
7 elementary schools that were closed in the Gaza Strip. [26]
3 high schools that were closed in the Gaza Strip. [27]
320 mobile homes, ordered by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, to serve as temporary housing for settlers. [28]
45,000 Israeli soldiers and policemen who participated in the Gaza withdrawal. How on earth do you "give up" soldiers and policemen ? [29]
$1.7 billion the approximate cost to the Israeli government for the withdrawal initiative. [30]
166 Israeli farmers who were moved out of Gaza a small number compared to Arab farmers that have been displaced . [31]
800 cows, which comprised the second largest dairy farm in Israel , moved out of Gaza ’s Gush Katif community. Then you didn't give them up did you ? [32]
$120 million value of flowers and produce exported annually from Gush Katif and lost following the evacuation. [33]
1 zoo, the “Katifari,” that housed hundreds of animals and was moved. [34]
10,000 people who were employed in agriculture and related industries in Gush Katif, including 5,000 Palestinians. Who's to say they aren't still employed in these industries ? [35]
60% proportion of Israel's cherry tomato exports that came from the Gaza Strip. Israel ’s withdrawal from Gaza extinguished this economic resource. No it didn't - it handed it back to it's rightful owners [36]
3.5 million square meters (almost 1,000 acres) of greenhouses abandoned in Gaza . [37]
70 percentage of Israel's organic produce grown in Gaza – another economic resource lost in the evacuation. [38]
60 percentage of herbs exported from Israel that came from Gush Katif. [39]
15 percentage of Israel agricultural exports that originated in Gaza – exports lost following Israel ’s withdrawal from Gaza . [40]
$360,000 expected average compensation amount Israel expected to pay to relocate each family. [41]
$870 million approximate cost for Israel to facilitate the resettlement of former West Bank and Gaza residents elsewhere in the country. [42]
$500 million amount of money Israel's security establishment spent to relocate Israel Defense Forces bases outside the Gaza Strip and build new border crossing facilities. [43]

I got bored of correcting your points as it's worthy of a Gestapo press release. Frankly, after seeing the reports on the BBC I've lost any sympathy I had for Israel and find it hard to think of any good reason for it not to wiped off the face of the planet. It might actually help resolve the Middle East issue if it was.

 

[Easy 10]

The Jews have no diving right to anything

Try telling that to Yossi Benayoun.

 

[drew]

Try telling that to Yossi Benayoun.

shit, how did that error creep in! Well spotted

 

[Easy 10]

shit, how did that error creep in! Well spotted

Apologies, my pedancy knows no bounds.
Taking your point though, the crux of the problem is that a "devine right" is precisely what Israel feel they DO have to this land. The only way to move towards resolving this is for the World (and that means YOU as well America), to stop picking sides and acknowledge that both the Israeli's AND the Palestinians have justified grievances against each other.

A ceasefire should be brokered on the basis that Hamas stops shelling southern Israel, Israel withdraws from Gaza and stops the attacks, prisoners/hostages from both sides be released, and they get round a table to sort the rest of this shit out without trying to destroy each other. Hamas also need to drop this "we will not recognise the state of Israel" shit as well for starters, because that belligerent and provocative stance gets in the way of ANY negotiations from the off. Israel is there. It exists. Deal with it. Talk with them.

 

[Dandyman]

i don't want to stereo type jews but their always like flys around shit when moneys about ,even proven by their marriages when they pin the stuff on the couples, do they have any class................. really

On the windup again, Steven, or looking for a long-term ban?

 

[Dandyman]

And just in case people don't know the difference between Jews and Israelis...

A time to speak out: Independent Jewish Voices - Times Advert


IJV Advert in Times, November 19th 2008
TIME TO SPEAK OUT - NOW!

ONE YEAR on from Annapolis, a peace agreement to end the Middle East conflict remains as distant as ever. Settlement expansion continues and Palestinian life under occupation deteriorates dramatically.

Increasing tension within Israel, resulting both from the occupation and discrimination against the Arab minority, threatens the fabric of Israeli society and the political future of both Palestinians and Israelis.

In his Jewish New Year interview, outgoing Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert belatedly recognised that "the decision we must make is the decision we have refused to face with open eyes for 40 years". He then identified the fundamental conditions for peace: "We must reach an agreement with the Palestinians, the essence of which is that we shall actually withdraw from almost all the territories, if not from all the territories . . . including in East Jerusalem."

With elections immanent in Israel, it is vital that maximum pressure is exerted on the negotiators to ensure that these principles are put into practice without further delay. The election of a new American administration, committed to action on Middle East peace from day one, presents a fresh opportunity for progress towards a settlement.

We, Jews in Britain, affirm our opposition to the continuing occupation and call upon the British government to use its influence in Washington and the Middle East to bring the occupation to a rapid end.

Seymour Alexander
Lisa Appignanesi
David Aukin

Martha Jean Baker
Lynne Reid Banks
Julia Bard
Michael Baron MBE
Rosemary Bechler
Sir Geoffrey Bindman
Rica Bird
Jenny Bloom
Ilse Boas
Susie Bolchover
Jackie Bornstein
Prof Emeritus Leslie
Baruch Brent
Dr Colin Brewer
Babette Brown
Frances Bruce
Dr Alan Bullion
Steven Burkeman
Dr Judy Bury
Prof Jane Caplan
Dr L Caplan
Esta Charkham
Ruth Clark
Barry Cohen
Norma Cohen
Michael Collins
Lady Ellen Dahrendorf
Prof Miriam David
Sara Davidson
Bernard Davies
Sally Davies
Jean Davis
Audrey Droisen
Susan Egert
Prof Barbara Einhorn
Liz Elkind
Morris Farhi MBE
Prof Gene Feder
Pia Feig
Prof Robert Fine
Sylvia Finzi
Ivan Fiser
Alexander Franklin
Ruth Friedman
Dr Martin Gaba
Ellen Galford
Dr Sarah Garfinkel
Carolyn Gelenter
Murray Glickman
Martin Golding
Ronnie Golz
Arthur Goodman
John Goodman
Karen Goodman
Lionel Gordon
Philip Graham
Gerald de Groot
Michelle Hanson
Abe Hayeem
Rosamine Hayeem
H. Heller
Prof Susan Himmelweit
Prof Eric Hobsbawm
Gad Hollander
Henry Hyatt
Dr Anthony Isaacs
Ron Isaacs
Prof Michael Jacobsen
Riva Joffe
Prof Gabriel Josipovici
Ann Jungman
Prof Cora Kaplan
Ann Karpf
Adah Kay
Paul Kelemen
Michael Kendall
Thena Kendall
Godrey King
Dr Brian Klug
Dr Tony Klug
Stevie Krayer
Richard Kuper
Michael Kustow
Prof Emeritus Frank
Land
Madeline Landauer
Linda Lennard
Antony Lerman
Leah Levane
Louis Levi
Vivien Lichtenstein
Sonja Linden
Susan Loppert
John Lynes
Beryl Maizels
Dr Ruth Mandel
Jenny Manson
Miriam Margolyes OBE
Gary Markham
Dr Susan Marks
Mike Marqusee
Patricia McIndoe
Ann McPherson
Alison Meek
Dr Ron Mendel
Ed Mendelsohn
Phyll Mendelsohn
Dr Jonathan Miller
Dr Rachel Miller
Prof David Mond
Dr Peter Mond
Dr N Monday
Phyllis Monday
Jeremy Montagu
Ian Montrose
Louise Morris
Norman Moss
Maurice Naftalin
Dr Mica Nava
Chaim Neslen
Diana Neslen
Ines Newman
Prof Mike Newman
Dr Paul Oestreicher
Prof Susie Orbach
Margaret Owen
Dr Kathy Panama
Prof Helen Penn
Prof Naomi Pfeffer
Rina Picciotto
Colin Purkey
Naomi Roberts
Warren Robin
Lee Robinson
Dr Paul Robinson
Prof Jacqueline Rose FBA
David Rosenberg
Ben Ross
Leon Rosselson
Anthony Rudolf
Michael Sackin
Prof A Samuels
Dr Esther Saraga
Prof Donald Sassoon
Anthony Sattin
Seb Schmoller
Dr Susan Schonfield
Prof Lynne Segal
Prof Victor J Seidler
Sybil Shine
Prof Avi Shlaim FBA
Irris Singer
Dr Juliet Singer
Sid Singer
Dr Jonathan Sklar
Hazel Slavin
Gillian Slovo
Geoffrey Stadlen
Rob Steen
Harold Stern
Jonathan Stern
Dan Susman
Janet Suzman
Ruth Teddern
Martin Toch
Dr David Toke
Inge Trott
Nadia Valman
Stanley Walinets
Ernst Weinberg
Ingelore Weinberg
Jenny Weinstein
M Weiss
RB Weiss
Baroness Janet Whitaker
Enid Wistrich
Sharon Witton
Myra Woolfson
Miriam Yagud
Dr G Yudkin
Prof J Yudkin FRCP

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

i don't want to stereo type jews but their always like flys around shit when moneys about ,even proven by their marriages when they pin the stuff on the couples, do they have any class................. really

Some muslim countries do that too....
















...ooops

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

So do muslims, in fact they go further. Its forbidden in the Koran for a muslim to sell land to a non muslim.

all muslim land must be covered by sharia/religous law, the "House of peace" lol, this is because "muslims submit to the koran, non muslims submit to the muslims and then there will be peace"

Looney mate where did you get this from? I tell you there would be a lot of unhappy Turkish estate agents if this was the truth.. and a lot of very unhapy retired english couples too!!!!!

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

6 million Jews were murdered in the holocaust, in addition to many other groups totalling 8 million people in total. (fact)

25% of the population of Israel are not jewish (fact). Non jews live in Israel, because as with the UK they choose too. Don't forget Israel is the size of Wales, surrounded by Arab nations, whose geographical area is greater than the size of Western Europe.

The standard of living in Israel is comparable to the UK & far higher than all the non democratically Arab surrounding nations.

A large percentage of Israel Gaza & the West Bank is controlled by the Palestinians. Their neighbours do not want them aka Egypt borders the Gaza strip yet the Palestinians are largely preluded from entering Egypt. The Arabs will never be happy until they have all of Israel......................if you read your Old Testament, the promised land i.e. Israel was for the Jewish people.

The UK cannot trace their heridary so far back.

1) Who are 'we?'

2) Is this our old friend from the Isreali information bureau again? He was whizz at sending us links and such. Pity he didn't know much about the football team.....

 

[Pantani]

When people condemn the Palestinians for attacking Israel from populated areas, what exactly do they expect them to do? The Gaza Strip is only 25 miles long and about 6 miles wide, it contains 1.4m people. Doesn't sound like they have much unpopulated land really does it!

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I would reccomend anyone to read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Wall-Israel-Arab-World/dp/0393321126/ref=pd_sim_b_21

Avi Shliem is one of the foremost Israel historians and although he does (quite rightly)not defend the Arabs he does put the blame firmly on the the Israeli governments doorstep... particularly the policy of the Hawks. he argues that the founding philosphers of Theodore Herzl and those who followed pretty much make the whole Arab conflict inevitable.

Israel has the right to defend itself but it must ask itself the fundamental question... will any action they take actually improve the situation for themselves? The agressive policy of the last sixty years has not worked.... sixty years ago there was no hamas... and this is imprtant because Hamas is Shia and the Shia mentality is much more agressive than the standard mid-east mentality. No one.. not even the Israelis themselves, would argue that Hamas is not a product of the Israeli conflict.

Please everyone.. do not read the press and watch the news.. go out and read.....and find out..... this is a tragic conflict where right now neither side can see straight.

As to who's fault it all is... well it's ours.... the Palestine Israel situation is all our fault:

see:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Peace-End-A...30639870&sr=1-2


Hey I'm almost getting as good as Bımbo, Bumbo, Buba, Steve Foster at this links business!!!

 

[Stoo82]

PEACE!

Its all real Israelis want. Its all real Palestinians want.

Israel should stop the attacks and so should hamas.

Did anyone see CNN last night? They have been at the Egypt/Palestinian border and the Egyptians are not letting through the aid that needs to get there.

Its such a tragedy. There is no right or wrong. Just senseless killing of innocents on both sides.

PEACE!

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The whole area is a timebomb. On top of the Muslim / Jewish scenario there is the Sunni / Shia Muslim debacle. The Middle East seems to have an inbred bloodlust that defies resolution.

 

[The Spanish]

Apologies, my pedancy knows no bounds.
Taking your point though, the crux of the problem is that a "devine right" is precisely what Israel feel they DO have to this land. The only way to move towards resolving this is for the World (and that means YOU as well America), to stop picking sides and acknowledge that both the Israeli's AND the Palestinians have justified grievances against each other.

A ceasefire should be brokered on the basis that Hamas stops shelling southern Israel, Israel withdraws from Gaza and stops the attacks, prisoners/hostages from both sides be released, and they get round a table to sort the rest of this shit out without trying to destroy each other. Hamas also need to drop this "we will not recognise the state of Israel" shit as well for starters, because that belligerent and provocative stance gets in the way of ANY negotiations from the off. Israel is there. It exists. Deal with it. Talk with them.

I don't think for a minute that many people outside of the religious maniacs and zionists genuinely believe they have a divine right to be there. Believing in the divinity of your right to be somewhere is not the only reason you will fight to keep a foothold on your plot of land. I think the stumbling blocks are simple human nature, the supernatural is a convenient smokescreen. They may be pushy and objectionable, but one thing they are not is stupid.

Israel is there, deal with it. hmm. History is littered with short lived states. If it ever seriously threatens world rather than regional stability, it will be given up by its allies without so much as a by your leave, I think we can guarantee that.

 

[Dandyman]

I don't think for a minute that many people outside of the religious maniacs and zionists genuinely believe they have a divine right to be there. Believing in the divinity of your right to be somewhere is not the only reason you will fight to keep a foothold on your plot of land. I think the stumbling blocks are simple human nature, the supernatural is a convenient smokescreen. They may be pushy and objectionable, but one thing they are not is stupid.

Israel is there, deal with it. hmm. History is littered with short lived states. If it ever seriously threatens world rather than regional stability, it will be given up by its allies without so much as a by your leave, I think we can guarantee that.

Israel could evolve into something else via a two state solution. My preferred outcome would be a viable democratic Palestine which develops the full range of economic, social and political ties with Israel and other countries of the region leading to their version of the EU.

 

[strings]

I think a two-state solution is the only answer. In order to broker any other deal it would take a matter of decades. The only problem with two-state (or Consociational) peace agreements in deeply-divided societies, is that they often can cause the conflict to re-ignite due to mistrust between the different populations. As they will never meet or integrate with the other population there is never the opportunity to realise that the 'other side' is OK, and the people are quite nice actually.

However, over the last 40 years, we have learned the in order to create peace, we need a solution whereby each population is guarunteed independence from the other. The Palestinians need to be allowed to self-govern and, in turn, the Israelis need to have the right to security.

I don't envy anybody working as a peace envoy over there.

 

[Napper]

be good to flatten the lot and start again

 

[Easy 10]

I don't think for a minute that many people outside of the religious maniacs and zionists genuinely believe they have a divine right to be there. Believing in the divinity of your right to be somewhere is not the only reason you will fight to keep a foothold on your plot of land. I think the stumbling blocks are simple human nature, the supernatural is a convenient smokescreen. They may be pushy and objectionable, but one thing they are not is stupid.

I'm certainly not branding the Israeli's stupid for their beliefs. The very reference to Israel in the Bible as being "The Promised Land" is exactly that - the land promised to them by God. In that respect, not only is it their natural human nature to desire a land/country of their own, it IS viewed by Israelites quite literally as their Divine Right.

Israel is there, deal with it. hmm. History is littered with short lived states. If it ever seriously threatens world rather than regional stability, it will be given up by its allies without so much as a by your leave, I think we can guarantee that.

I think we can guarantee that Israel will never be abandoned by the World, and rightly so. The influence of Jewish folk in powerful positions within powerful countries guarantees that Israel will never suddenly cease to exist or be annexed. It has the 4th biggest military force on the planet, and is a nuclear power.

Palestinians / Hamas must drop their flat refusal to acknowledge the state of Israel, and Israel must acknowledge the Palestinians right to live within their own unoccupied state. Tolerance is the only way towards a two-state resolution, but unfortunately neither side seems prepared to extend one iota of tolerance to the other.

 

[Husty]

i know there is a stark difference but does anyone else feel that israels foreign policy rubs off on normal jews, when i think of jews i think of israel and then i think of the mass slaughter of civilians and the theft and occupation of land, even thought these people probably dont support the war i still find myself thinking of them negatively, almost without realising it