[Politics] Voter Identification.

[nicko31]

But why does it matter?

The fact is that the government of the day have made a change to the electoral system that benefits them. This government didn't have it on any manifesto, In their time in office, they have individually and collectively been found to have lied on an industrial scale and been found guilty of an unprecedented assortment of misdemeanours.

Changes in the way we elect governments require some sort of legitimacy. There needs to be some sort of public consent. Not a referendum, but just a consensus that the change is necessary and wasn't bought in to benefit one party or another. This government has trashed any right to be believed when they claim it's to reduce fraud. They don't have the trust of the electorate to make this change.

The problem is Voter ID is just the start. Its important to remember the Electoral Commission's independence has also been comprimised, its effectively now under government control.

Still it could be worse, Peter Bone (CON) tried to push a bill to have it abolished altogether.

 

[Bozza]

These are things many people feel, which is why a lot of people think voter ID is 'fair enough'.

However, the actual data suggests that we do not have a problem with voter fraud, while there are many dangers in requiring voter ID (already discussed at length in this thread).

So you're bringing in something that creates a lot of problems, to solve a perceived problem that didn't actually exist.

We’ve been round this loop before some months back.

We do not have EVIDENCE of a problem of voter fraud. That’s not to say there isn’t (wasn’t) a problem with voter fraud.

If millions of people can just walk into a polling station and vote with little/no validation in place - how would we actually know if there was a problem or not?

Last election I could walk into my voting station, give my next door neighbour’s name and address and cast his vote in any way I see fit. Today I can’t.

Note: I am absolutely not saying we do (did) have a problem with election fraud but no one could prove it one way or another.

 

[A1X]

 

[Postman Pat]

We’ve been round this loop before some months back.

We do not have EVIDENCE of a problem of voter fraud. That’s not to say there isn’t (wasn’t) a problem with voter fraud.

If millions of people can just walk into a polling station and vote with little/no validation in place - how would we actually know if there was a problem or not?

Last election I could walk into my voting station, give my next door neighbour’s name and address and cast his vote in any way I see fit. Today I can’t.

Note: I am absolutely not saying we do (did) have a problem with election fraud but no one could prove it one way or another.

This is true, but would only go unnoticed if you were 100% sure your neighbour had no intention of voting and didnt turn up later.

For this to be a widespread issue you would assume at some point this would have gone wrong and someone who said they were not going to vote, then actually did.

To have no single issue identified we have to assume it isnt a problem.

 

[Giraffe]

You need ID for almost everything these days. I needed it to register my mums death. I need it to attend some away football matches. I need it to start a new job. Some people need it to buy alcohol or tobacco. I need it to open a bank account. I need it to go to the tip for goodness sakes.

Voting is important. It makes absolute sense to be asked for ID to do so. I can't imagine why anyone would not want ID, other than someone is wanting to commit fraud?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We’ve been round this loop before some months back.

We do not have EVIDENCE of a problem of voter fraud. That’s not to say there isn’t (wasn’t) a problem with voter fraud.

If millions of people can just walk into a polling station and vote with little/no validation in place - how would we actually know if there was a problem or not?

Last election I could walk into my voting station, give my next door neighbour’s name and address and cast his vote in any way I see fit. Today I can’t.

Note: I am absolutely not saying we do (did) have a problem with election fraud but no one could prove it one way or another.

But then when the neighbour later walks in and produces the polling card, we have evidence of voter fraud.

The fact that there had been almost no evidence of voter fraud at any election ever, suggests that though this is possible, nobody ever did it.

I suppose it would be theoretically to vote on behalf of people you don't think will vote, but how do you know whether they will? I bet it's been done. But so incredible rarely that you can't possibly justify putting in measures for the entire population likely to reduce voting

 

[Giraffe]

To be clear I'm not happy that we're now being forced to use ID to exercise our democratic rights.

However since we are then the Government should provide a universal photo ID at their expense. When the photos need updating, they can pay for that too.

They did and of the estimated 2 million people that didn't have one, only 10,000 asked for one (as per the Guardian). I doubt a lot of these people have ever voted to be honest.

Only 10,000 people in Great Britain have applied for government-issued voter ID

Exclusive: number is just 0.5% of those who could need the document under new scheme

www.theguardian.com

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What drivel. The reason people don't vote is because they are to lazy to go a polling station like me. Not pulling out some ID from your wallet and flashing it.

Rubbish. The reason many don't vote is because of the quality of candidates and the inter-party tribadism. I voted for two Tories because they have proven themselves - the rest I was presented with were three lying Labour ****s, one Independent nutter, three Green idiots, one Tory liar and one Reform UK dick. If there had been a Partridge in a Pear Tree I might have used my third vote.

 

[Guinness Boy]

To have no single issue identified we have to assume it isnt a problem.

There was one small problem. A very small amount of voter impersonation. The people involved were brown skinned, poor and from East London.

That's the elephant in the room and why this thread was started by erstwhile NSC fascist Baker Lite.

 

[nicko31]

They did and of the estimated 2 million people that didn't have one, only 10,000 asked for one (as per the Guardian). I doubt a lot of these people have ever voted to be honest.

Only 10,000 people in Great Britain have applied for government-issued voter ID

Exclusive: number is just 0.5% of those who could need the document under new scheme

www.theguardian.com

The government will be delighted with this. This group are 3 times as likely to vote Labour than Conservative, mission accomplished

 

[Triggaaar]

Last election I could walk into my voting station, give my next door neighbour’s name and address and cast his vote in any way I see fit. Today I can’t.

I'm sorry to hear that. Will he vote Green or something?

 

[Bozza]

This is true, but would only go unnoticed if you were 100% sure your neighbour had no intention of voting and didnt turn up later.

For this to be a widespread issue you would assume at some point this would have gone wrong and someone who said they were not going to vote, then actually did.

To have no single issue identified we have to assume it isnt a problem.

Does anyone have details on how, when and why polling station staff did previously undertake some sort of validation to satisfy themselves that voter fraud wasn't happening? Maybe 1-in-X voters were subject to extra scrutiny? If so, what was X?

Edit: I didn't say it was a widespread issue. I didn't even say it was an issue. I'm talking theoretical hypotheticals above and beyond elections: Simply f something isn't tested for then it can't be known whether it exists or not.

In other news: I've just been to visit my mum quickly. As I drove by my polling station, I thought I may as well quickly stop and vote as I don't have much time today given this evening's game.

I parked up, got out the car and started towards the polling station before I realised that I didn't have any ID on me. I only take my phone everywhere these days - I'm not sure when I last left the house with my wallet. I slinked back to my car a defeated man.

 

[Bozza]

But then when the neighbour later walks in and produces the polling card, we have evidence of voter fraud.

The fact that there had been almost no evidence of voter fraud at any election ever, suggests that though this is possible, nobody ever did it.

I suppose it would be theoretically to vote on behalf of people you don't think will vote, but how do you know whether they will? I bet it's been done. But so incredible rarely that you can't possibly justify putting in measures for the entire population likely to reduce voting

Blimey - you are a man for bold claims.

"Nobody ever did it". In hundreds of millions of votes cast in this country before voter ID was in place, you are saying that absolutely no-one has ever cast a vote for someone else. I would be amazed if that were true.

 

[Bodian]

The problem is Voter ID is just the start. Its important to remember the Electoral Commission's independence has also been comprimised, its effectively now under government control.

Still it could be worse, Peter Bone (CON) tried to push a bill to have it abolished altogether.

Voting? Wouldn't be surprised actually.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

I just wonder what those against it think when it works so well in Sweden and Norway, ranked highest amongst the best democracies in the world.

 

[studio150]

They did and of the estimated 2 million people that didn't have one, only 10,000 asked for one (as per the Guardian). I doubt a lot of these people have ever voted to be honest.

Only 10,000 people in Great Britain have applied for government-issued voter ID

Exclusive: number is just 0.5% of those who could need the document under new scheme

www.theguardian.com

But if you believed that the photo on your driving licence for example no longer looked liked you, when you went on the Government site to request one, one of the first questions was - do you have a driving licence, answer yes and you are told to bring that, and you are bounced out of the system.

That's a driving licenece, not a photcard driving licence, and no option to say the photo doesn't look like you.

So it would have been interesting to turn up with a green driving licence to be told its not a photo ID, to then have a discussion about the wording of the Government's own web pages.

And don't forget zero ID requirements for a postal vote, and where has most voter fraud occurred, yep postal votes. Tells you all you need to know about the Tories.

 

[BBassic]

They did and of the estimated 2 million people that didn't have one, only 10,000 asked for one (as per the Guardian). I doubt a lot of these people have ever voted to be honest.

Only 10,000 people in Great Britain have applied for government-issued voter ID

Exclusive: number is just 0.5% of those who could need the document under new scheme

www.theguardian.com

And I'm saying if they're forcing us to use photo ID to vote then they provide the ID regardless. We don't apply for it. We get given it, whether we intend to use it or not.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Does anyone have details on how, when and why polling station staff did previously undertake some sort of validation to satisfy themselves that voter fraud wasn't happening? Maybe 1-in-X voters were subject to extra scrutiny? If so, what was X?

Edit: I didn't say it was a widespread issue. I didn't even say it was an issue. I'm talking theoretical hypotheticals above and beyond elections: Simply f something isn't tested for then it can't be known whether it exists or not.

In other news: I've just been to visit my mum quickly. As I drove by my polling station, I thought I may as well quickly stop and vote as I don't have much time today given this evening's game.

I parked up, got out the car and started towards the polling station before I realised that I didn't have any ID on me. I only take my phone everywhere these days - I'm not sure when I last left the house with my wallet. I slinked back to my car a defeated man.

An excellent example of how this measure will deter voters and decrease the numbers voting

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Blimey - you are a man for bold claims.

"Nobody ever did it". In hundreds of millions of votes cast in this country before voter ID was in place, you are saying that absolutely no-one has ever cast a vote for someone else. I would be amazed if that were true.

"The suggestion" is that nobody ever did it were the words I used.

For the obvious reason, that were it happening, Returning officers would inevitably be reporting voter fraud, when the actual voter turns up later on. They haven't been, so it follows it can't be happening.

Again, maybe in miniscule numbers, who knows, but not enough to change a rule which prevent people who are busily going about their day and no longer carry wallets from popping in and placing a vote

 

[El Presidente]