[Politics] Voter Identification.

[jakarta]

Just voted, had the awful ordeal of showing the Polling Staff my Driving Licence, a Fascist Regime indeed...

 

[heathgate]

I'll state again that I've got no strong feeling on this either way. I'm certainly not saying what I'm about to say because I'm banging a drum FOR voter ID, however...

1. Ever since I could first vote, I've always thought it a bit strange that it's possible to just rock up to a polling station, give a name and address, and be allowed to vote. I had always assumed presenting the polling card, at the very least, would be required, so I was surprised to find not even that was required.

2. I don't recall any outrage expressed at all the European nations (which, from a quick search, seems to be most of them) that require voter ID. With hundreds of millions of our fellow citizens having their rights suppressed in such a draconian matter, I'm surprised I don't recall ever reading about it anywhere, including here.

You won't hear any outrage from the 'right-on' cadre on these pages,.... It seems that ID cards for voting or for other reasons are glibly accepted for those regimes across the channel, but for us in these benign cosmopolitan islands it's an authoritarian non starter apparently...

 

[BBassic]

thats the spirit, embrace ID and make it mandatory. its what people far smater than those that brought in voter ID government are banking on.

To be clear I'm not happy that we're now being forced to use ID to exercise our democratic rights.

However since we are then the Government should provide a universal photo ID at their expense. When the photos need updating, they can pay for that too.

 

[heathgate]

Asked by someone for Voter ID outside the polling station.

I asked them to ID themselves first, he told me her was a clerk, I then reminded them all clerks should not be stepping outside the polling station.

Clearly turning individuals away with no ID and not recording them. Not great...

Oh, the horror!!!

 

[Mustafa II]

Do the wards change? Was looking at the 2019 results and it appears that north Hove was separated differently.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

And if the Tories get the predicted thumping tonight in the election results? “Well they tried to fix an election and failed!”. If they do better than expected: “it’s all because they fixed the election”.

It’s a nonsense.

It's not. Because both would be true

 

[heathgate]

I doubt though that whatever law introduced the need for ID in those countries was introduced by a government with such a shameful record of duplicitous dishonesty as this one. Nor was it accompanied with restrictions which would obviously make it easier for their target demographic to vote than the oppositions target demographic.

The widespread cynicism seen here and elsewhere is entirely justified.

Just you using the words "I doubt' hardly gives your prejudices any credibility in this debate.... try introducing some evidence of your "doubt".

 

[jcdenton08]

It's not. Because both would be true

 

[Bozza]

I doubt though that whatever law introduced the need for ID in those countries was introduced by a government with such a shameful record of duplicitous dishonesty as this one. Nor was it accompanied with restrictions which would obviously make it easier for their target demographic to vote than the oppositions target demographic.

The widespread cynicism seen here and elsewhere is entirely justified.

"I doubt though..." means you're guessing, which is fair enough. I couldn't be arsed to go and research how other countries implemented this either.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Well, this change came in under Boris yeh? So after the second world war, which European governments in any country at any time have as much of a reputation for dishonesty and deceit as that one? Possibly only Berlusconi (and even then!!!). So I don't really need to do any research.

 

[jcdenton08]

Well, this change came in under Boris yeh? So after the second world war, which European governments in any country at any time have as much of a reputation for dishonesty and deceit as that one? Possibly only Berlusconi (and even then!!!). So I don't really need to do any research.

Hungary, Romania, Russia, Lithuania, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Poland, Bulgaria, Kosovo, Montenegro, Latvia and dozens more.

Define dishonesty? How are you comparing that to other nations? Do you mean corruption or broken pledges? How much research have you done into political pledges made by the Andorran government in comparison to the UK?

 

[Bozza]

Well, this change came in under Boris yeh? So after the second world war, which European governments in any country at any time have as much of a reputation for dishonesty and deceit as that one? Possibly only Berlusconi (and even then!!!). So I don't really need to do any research.

Over 40 countries in Europe, numerous government changes over the decades and you don't know under which of them voter ID came into play nor how it was introduced. You have a lot more surety in your guesses than I do in my own.

To be clear, I'm not arguing the toss on the Tory administrations we've been unfortunate to live under of late - utterly shameful in all regards.

Again, I'm also not advocating for voter ID, although in principle giving it minimal thought, I don't see why being asked to prove yourself in order to be able to vote is a bad thing. That requires a well thought-out implementation however, but this thread seems to be jumping around between the high-level principle of voter ID and the specifics of the new implementation of it in the UK.

 

[heathgate]

Well, this change came in under Boris yeh? So after the second world war, which European governments in any country at any time have as much of a reputation for dishonesty and deceit as that one? Possibly only Berlusconi (and even then!!!). So I don't really need to do any research.

I suggest you have a little research into Spain, Portugal and Greece,... post war regime leaderships that only a mother could love.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Hungary, Romania, Russia, Lithuania, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Poland, Bulgaria, Kosovo, Montenegro, Latvia and dozens more.

Define dishonesty? How are you comparing that to other nations? Do you mean corruption or broken pledges? How much research have you done into political pledges made by the Andorran government in comparison to the UK?

Oooh, days and days worth.

 

[heathgate]

Hungary, Romania, Russia, Lithuania, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Poland, Bulgaria, Kosovo, Montenegro, Latvia and dozens more.

Define dishonesty? How are you comparing that to other nations? Do you mean corruption or broken pledges? How much research have you done into political pledges made by the Andorran government in comparison to the UK?

I'll give you a steer here...... he has done ZERO research to support his emotive assertions......

 

[Guinness Boy]

thats the spirit, embrace ID and make it mandatory. its what people far smater than those that brought in voter ID government are banking on.

It's already here. You almost can't do anything without showing ID these days. Brighton away game? ID at the turnstiles please. Photo ID needed to open a bank account, even for kids. Now voting too. And smart phones that track your location and that you increasingly have to have if you want to go to football or a gig or even eat (I took my daughter to a sushi place last week, you literally couldn't have ordered without owning a smart phone).

Is it "produce your papers?". Of course not. But in many ways it's worse.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'll give you a steer here...... he has done ZERO research to support his emotive assertions......

How much research do you do before you post on here on average?

 

[Perry's Tracksuit Bottoms]

I'll state again that I've got no strong feeling on this either way. I'm certainly not saying what I'm about to say because I'm banging a drum FOR voter ID, however...

1. Ever since I could first vote, I've always thought it a bit strange that it's possible to just rock up to a polling station, give a name and address, and be allowed to vote. I had always assumed presenting the polling card, at the very least, would be required, so I was surprised to find not even that was required.

2. I don't recall any outrage expressed at all the European nations (which, from a quick search, seems to be most of them) that require voter ID. With hundreds of millions of our fellow citizens having their rights suppressed in such a draconian manner, I'm surprised I don't recall ever reading about it anywhere, including here.

These are things many people feel, which is why a lot of people think voter ID is 'fair enough'.

However, the actual data suggests that we do not have a problem with voter fraud, while there are many dangers in requiring voter ID (already discussed at length in this thread).

So you're bringing in something that creates a lot of problems, to solve a perceived problem that didn't actually exist.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

But why does it matter?

The fact is that the government of the day have made a change to the electoral system that benefits them. This government didn't have it on any manifesto, In their time in office, they have individually and collectively been found to have lied on an industrial scale and been found guilty of an unprecedented assortment of misdemeanours.

Changes in the way we elect governments require some sort of legitimacy. There needs to be some sort of public consent. Not a referendum, but just a consensus that the change is necessary and wasn't bought in to benefit one party or another. This government has trashed any right to be believed when they claim it's to reduce fraud. They don't have the trust of the electorate to make this change.

 

[nicko31]

You won't hear any outrage from the 'right-on' cadre on these pages,.... It seems that ID cards for voting or for other reasons are glibly accepted for those regimes across the channel, but for us in these benign cosmopolitan islands it's an authoritarian non starter apparently...

I would suggest reading the thread before responding...