[Politics] Voter Identification.

[BBassic]

It’s not about exclusion, my examination will be open to all. As I said, it’s about raising standards. Why would you be opposed to this?

Who do we get to set the exam? Maybe The International Baccalaureate? I like them and their values and they’re respected worldwide.

I’ve been thinking about this for some time and I’m good to go with it...I’m only a phone call away.

I've often wondered why politics isn't taught in school. Or at least it wasn't when I was in school twenty odd years ago.

I don't mean teaching about the relative positives and negatives of each of the parties but of the importance of being clued up. Government, in one way or another, is such a huge part of our lives I find it incredible that any knowledge you get before college-age is from your parents or your own learning.

 

[GT49er]

These measures are always designed to prevent people from voting at all. We do not have a voter fraud problem in this country, this is just a naked power grab from a dominant party seeking to cement its position. A disgrace.

I'm not a fan of having ID cards, but since they have effectively been brought in through the back door for many business purposes I see no point in raging against them. What I am interested in is just how do you think the 'dominant party' is planning to prevent people who don't have a passport or driving licence from getting ID?

 

[JBizzle]

As a voter, I'm trying to work out what problem this is trying to fix? I don't recall voter fraud being flagged as a massive issue. It seems like a fairly unnecessary extra step personally.

 

[brightn'ove]

Remember when everyone was against ID cards

 

[Curious Orange]

Okay, here is the question to ask. Have any of you EVER gone into a polling station to vote and found that your name has already been crossed through as someone has stolen your vote?

 

[Hotchilidog]

I'm not a fan of having ID cards, but since they have effectively been brought in through the back door for many business purposes I see no point in raging against them. What I am interested in is just how do you think the 'dominant party' is planning to prevent people who don't have a passport or driving licence from getting ID?

It's just another barrier that is totally uneccessary. Passports are expensive and many people don't drive. What you say sounds 'reasonable', but we all know this is being enacted in bad faith. Not as bad as the States but it's the thin edge of wedge for me. The government know that the people who are unlikely to have photo ID will be the poor and the marginalised, hardly fertile ground for the Tory party.

Our elections work perfectly fine, they are conducted in fair manner. There is no problem to solve here.

The government has to make the case for this measure by demonstrating that our electoral system has been subvert by nefarious means. They have categorically not done that.

 

[gazingdown]

Okay, here is the question to ask. Have any of you EVER gone into a polling station to vote and found that your name has already been crossed through as someone has stolen your vote?

I suspect the issue (and no-one knows how widespread as it's, by definition, not reported) can be with the following:
1. those not intending to vote having someone else use their vote. e.g. you know your mate Bob doesn't vote, so you got and vote as him as well as voting as yourself. Bob doesn't vote so he's not going to find out and report it.
2. some people being told not to vote as their partners will do it for them.
3. votes from non-existent people

How widespread it is, I've no idea (it's rarely reported after all) but it only takes one constituency with a small number splitting two leading candidates possibly changing outcome.
In a constituency where the majority is large anyway, I doubt it. makes much of a difference.

Regardless, given that most people have at least one photo id (there's normally a fair few valid options, passport, driving licence and others) and you can get ones that are free (from council/benefits office - even if you are not claiming), I'm not sure it's any great issue to have to produce photo id.

Of course, there can be fraudulent photo ids, however it's not about completely solving the issue but of making it harder for fraudulent votes to occur.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I suspect the issue (and no-one knows how widespread as it's, by definition, not reported) can be with the following:
1. those not intending to vote having someone else use their vote. e.g. you know your mate Bob doesn't vote, so you got and vote as him as well as voting as yourself. Bob doesn't vote so he's not going to find out and report it.
2. some people being told not to vote as their partners will do it for them.
3. votes from non-existent people

How widespread it is, I've no idea (it's rarely reported after all) but it only takes one constituency with a small number splitting two leading candidates possibly changing outcome.
In a constituency where the majority is large anyway, I doubt it. makes much of a difference.

Regardless, given that most people have at least one photo id (there's normally a fair few valid options, passport, driving licence and others) and you can get ones that are free (from council/benefits office - even if you are not claiming), I'm not sure it's any great issue to have to produce photo id.

Of course, there can be fraudulent photo ids, however it's not about completely solving the issue but of making it harder for fraudulent votes to occur.

Evidence please. If, buts and maybes.

 

[gazingdown]

Evidence please. If, buts and maybes.

You clearly didn't read my post. I've made no claims.

I clearly said I've not idea how widespread it is (could be not a problem at all or a large one, who knows).

 

[dsr-burnley]

All this fuss about someones mother not having a passport etc. Just register for a postal vote or is that offensive to people on the streets. There are come real snowflakes on here getting offended for other people.

It's postal votes that make the voter i.d. completely pointless. That's where the voter fraud is to be found. One of the wards in Brierfield (near Burnley) always has turnouts of over 50%, sometimes as high as 70%, not because the voters are particularly politically aware, but because the party activists go round collecting signatures on the postal vote forms from people who aren't interested.

In one election, a block of 70-odd votes registered as postal votes to one address in Oldham were disallowed, much to the chagrin of the candidate who complained that they were "his" votes.

 

[beorhthelm]

Remember when everyone was against ID cards

people still are. thats why HO are trying again under this guise.

 

[Hotchilidog]

You clearly didn't read my post. I've made no claims.

I clearly said I've not idea how widespread it is (could be not a problem at all or a large one, who knows).

But we do know, and it's not widespread at all. There is no evidence for electoral fraud on even a miniscule scale in this country.

 

[gazingdown]

But we do know, and it's not widespread at all.

Where is your evidence for that claim? Lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't mean the opposite is true.

There is no evidence for electoral fraud on even a miniscule scale in this country.

Quite possibly correct (and I would be of the opinion as such given, as it stands, little evidence has been provided), however that doesn't mean it doesn't happen (whether on widespread or on minor scale).

I suspect that postal voting is more likely to be a problem.

The photo ID discussion doesn't have to be about solving a problem (whether or not it exists) but also about possibly preventing it becoming an issue in the first place. It could be used for postal voting too (photocopy/pic of id attached with posted vote). BTW - The vote itself isn't linked to your ID, just the submission of the vote. i.e. the vote is sealed, however to put that vote in the box, the id is used to check that person hasn't already voted.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

These measures are always designed to prevent people from voting at all. We do not have a voter fraud problem in this country, this is just a naked power grab from a dominant party seeking to cement its position. A disgrace.

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with carrying an ID card - seems to work in Europe OK. After all - I need ID to do to the tip these days,

If we watched an election in (say) Zimbabwe where someone just turns up, gives their name and address without any proof of who they are, and votes , we'd be shouting about potential fraud.

A far bigger (IMO) issue is potential voting fraud through postal voting.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Where is your evidence for that claim? Lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't mean the opposite is true.

https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

 

[gazingdown]

https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

That's isn't proving your claim.

You said it wasn't happening. The electoral commissions simply says there's little/no evidence that it is happening, it's not saying that is isn't happening. You can't prove a negative.

There is little/no evidence that god exists, however that's not in itself evidence that it doesn't. I don't believe either (widespread fraud and god exists).

 

[Baker lite]

I was watching the Hartlepool by-election and I repeatedly saw the same middle-aged gammon going into the polling centre.

Ooooh..casual racism..nice.


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[Baker lite]

It’s not about exclusion, my examination will be open to all. As I said, it’s about raising standards. Why would you be opposed to this?

Who do we get to set the exam? Maybe The International Baccalaureate? I like them and their values and they’re respected worldwide.

I’ve been thinking about this for some time and I’m good to go with it...I’m only a phone call away.

Do you have to show your papers when voting in the Fatherland?


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[zefarelly]

Not really - the lucrative business opportunity really isn't needed. Most people (though far from all) have either a driving licence or a passport (or both), If the government legislates so that bus passes are, and have to be accepted as, legal ID there won't be a great many left who need a separate card.

Issuing of such ID cards can be handled using existing resources - be it the local authority, the DWP or even the post office, and the technology needed isn't very expensive.

I agree, that won't stop someone starting a business and getting a contract from one of their memebers of family/school mates who just so happens to be in the cabinet though

 

[nwgull]

I was watching the Hartlepool by-election and I repeatedly saw the same middle-aged gammon going into the polling centre.

Those fat, ruddy-cheeked, middle-aged, angry folk all look the same to me.