Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[The Merry Prankster]

I read both the Telegraph and the Spectator and I think the Mail is an obnoxious, bigoted, bile filed, lazy, arse wipe of a newspaper.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The EU does not have any funds........it takes money indirectly from tax payers/businesses via contributions made by their governments or levies additional taxes on directly from consumers by adding levies to the tax system in member states (like VAT) making goods and services more expensive than they should be.

So, the EU is merely passing back some of the money they have taken from hard pressed consumers, businesses or employees in member states. Ironically in the UK at least it is those consumers, employees and businesses who have never had a say on (a) how their taxes are taken and spent by the EU, and (b) how the EU spends the money. going forward there will be more tax raising to come.

EU calls for 'Tobin' tax in a move to raise direct revenue | World news | The Guardian

You will no doubt consider the distribution of some of that money to your bank account as worthwhile, civil servants always do.......but then you are conflicted. You are not going to provide an impartial view on the EU when your livelihood is connected to that institution.........Turkeys don't vote for Christmas do they.

a) I am not a civil servant b) the connection my livelihood has with the EU is minimal in the grand scheme of things. I work on all sorts of projects, it just so happens the current one is a joint effort between one of the biggest companies in the UK (who I have a contract with) and the EU but it is of european wide interest. In two weeks time I move on to something else. I made the point because I can see at first hand how the EU is helping the UK economy. This is not their primary objective in this case but the direct money they have provided and the future returns on this investment to the UK tax payer are very very significant. And Gordon Brown has to be thanked for the tax incentives which enables this to be undertaken in the UK.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I read both the Telegraph and the Spectator and I think the Mail is an obnoxious, bigoted, bile filed, lazy, arse wipe of a newspaper.

This.

 

[BadFish]

hahahahahaha are you f***ing sure ?? we are one of the small minority that do follow the rules.

Except for the two that you are being fined for!

 

[Camicus]

hahahahahaha are you f***ing sure ?? we are one of the small minority that do follow the rules.

That piece of leglislation is set up to ensure a flat playing field across europe and protection for the consumer. But hey that conflicts with the torys big bussiness so it wont happen and we end up paying the fine. Have you ever noticed how its always the laws that help us plebs out that get vetoed ignoed or opted out of?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The sad thing is , we'll be mug enough to actually pay, the french just tell them to f*** off and hear no more about it, we're still wait for compensation over the lamb burning, how many years ago was that ?

This.

 

[soistes]

I read both the Telegraph and the Spectator and I think the Mail is an obnoxious, bigoted, bile filed, lazy, arse wipe of a newspaper.

Double this

 

[HovaGirl]

Its very simple abide by the RULES. Jesus wept you carry on ignoring the laws and rules and you carry on getting fined. I am filled with absolute horrer that the UK will be stuck in a perpetual hell of a tory goverment with no EU looking after us

A very strange comment to make, because Britain was a wonderful country when it was ruled alternately by Conservative and Labour Governments "with no EU looking after us". I know, because I was there. It was only when the EU began to poke nose in that it all went horribly wrong and our wonderful land ceased to be our own and became such an ugly place to live.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Have you ever noticed how its always the laws that help us plebs out that get vetoed ignoed or opted out of?

This is very true. Very true. There is a news channel I used to watch which runs articles on the various european wide rulings which occur. The rulings generally seemed to have the main objective of benfiting and making life easy for european citizens and are generally plain common sense. They ranged from big ticket items like the Schengen agreement to little things like minimum requirements for bicycles on trains. At the end of the days broadcast there was a sarcastic voice (with eyesrolling no doubt) which pointed out the UK had vetoed the idea or deferred a decision for, in the case of the bicycles, 15 years. A lot of mainland europe puts it's people first, the UK does not.

 

[BadFish]

A very strange comment to make, because Britain was a wonderful country when it was ruled alternately by Conservative and Labour Governments "with no EU looking after us". I know, because I was there. It was only when the EU began to poke nose in that it all went horribly wrong and our wonderful land ceased to be our own and became such an ugly place to live.

......and the only factor that is different is the EU? Come on, surely you cannot lay the blame for the decline of the UK solely at the door of the EU (I have just got back from a visit and didn't notice it being a particularly ugly place to live, but bow to your more indepth knowledge of the place).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Double this

I'll this this this as well.

 

[CheeseRolls]

And here's the sensationalist Independent's report:
UK may be fined over failure to honour single market agreement - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

This is a good story and worthy of a response.

This is essentially a free trade dispute, within the EU. It is designed to remove barriers to trade that are resulting in higher domestic energy bills for householders. The UK is under threat of a fine, for not implementing what the government has agreed to do. Now I hear plenty of people saying the usual we should just go tell them to get stuffed, but this is the point about free trade, the arrangements are reciprocal, both sides need to derive benefit. The idea that little old Britain is going to push the rest of the world around because otherwise 60 million of us will take our business elsewhere is just a crazy notion. In the 19th Century we sent the gunboats to Shanghai and imposed our will, I don't think the Chinese are willing to accede so easily these days. You negotiate agree and then uphold your side of the bargain.

The sad thing about this dispute is that the legislation has not been enacted in Northern Ireland. The obvious reason is that cheaper energy will come in from the Republic of Ireland and the Unionists oppose it. So let me put it to you, in this instance the real issue here is that the Unionists wave the flag and we pay the bill.

 

[vegster]

It's partly to out-manoevre UKIP, but it's partly so he can re-negotiate and back-track on some of the treaties so we regain some of our sovereignty. It's a gamble, but if he can stop the unelected bureau-Eurocrats in Brussels from dictating to us how we should live our daily lives and give back the UK some of the power to run itself, then he may actually win a package which might suit the British people better than the totalitarian dictatorship which is currently developing in Europe. The British people might then actually vote "yes" to staying in. If Brussels remains intransigent and the treaties unchanged, then the British people might vote "no", but then Cameron would have his mandate to withdraw, and let Britain take its chances with the rest of the world, like it used to. Who knows, other disaffected members then might think they could do the same so that there develops a more realistic Europe as a market and allied force.

So, the fun comes if diddy David can persuade the French and Germans that his reforms are the way forward and he gets what he wants.He than has the tricky job of selling it to his rabid back benchers who want out at any price. So this could split the Tories even more. Mind you, If I was Merkel,Hollande etc I'd tell him to piss off anyway and say go have your referendum and if you want out then go and say " Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish "

 

[User removed 4]

This.

Are you feeling ok mate ?

 

[User removed 4]

So, the fun comes if diddy David can persuade the French and Germans that his reforms are the way forward and he gets what he wants.He than has the tricky job of selling it to his rabid back benchers who want out at any price. So this could split the Tories even more. Mind you, If I was Merkel,Hollande etc I'd tell him to piss off anyway and say go have your referendum and if you want out then go and say " Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish "

Yours is an attitude I find unfathomable , are you british ? If so, I cant understand why you sound positively gleeful that our fish stocks have been ravaged by foreign fishermen , decimating our fishing industry .

 

[soistes]

This is very true. Very true. There is a news channel I used to watch which runs articles on the various european wide rulings which occur. The rulings generally seemed to have the main objective of benfiting and making life easy for european citizens and are generally plain common sense. They ranged from big ticket items like the Schengen agreement to little things like minimum requirements for bicycles on trains. At the end of the days broadcast there was a sarcastic voice (with eyesrolling no doubt) which pointed out the UK had vetoed the idea or deferred a decision for, in the case of the bicycles, 15 years. A lot of mainland europe puts it's people first, the UK does not.

Spot on, and the much derided (in this country) Working Time Directive, Agency Workers Directive and similar regulations also have no purpose other than to shift the balance slightly in favour of the individual (worker in this case) in what is otherwise, a very non-level playing field. At this point, of course, we get the business lobby arguing about how terrible such things are, and what a terrible restriction on the "right to manage", the profitability of small businesses blah, blah.
How is it, that in every other EU member state, companies not only live with, but thrive in this kind of regulatory environment (with many economies including Germany doing far better than our economy) and recognise that a necessary quid pro quo for the free market, no tariff barriers etc is a certain amount of protection for the workforce? Are they really all idiots, but we've got it absolutely right?

 

[vegster]

Yours is an attitude I find unfathomable , are you british ? If so, I cant understand why you sound positively gleeful that our fish stocks have been ravaged by foreign fishermen , decimating our fishing industry .

Oh dear, you just had a " Whoosh " moment there didn't you ? " Goodbye and thanks for all the fish " was a book written by Douglas Adams and that would be quite apt given any exit. As for decimating our fish stocks and fishing industry, we have done a pretty good job of wiping out our own fish and plenty of others over the years.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Are you feeling ok mate ?

I'm good thanks. I have said before I wish we had the UK attitude of the French. They dont like something they're out on the streets telling their government to do one or setting fire to British lamb. If the Brits were felling screwed over by the French would they be out igniting croissants and hurling french sticks off the white cliffs of Dover? No. Shame, as frizbee-ing a meat-feast off a cliff when you're pissed off with the Italians looks like fun.

 

[sten_super]

The sad thing about this dispute is that the legislation has not been enacted in Northern Ireland. The obvious reason is that cheaper energy will come in from the Republic of Ireland and the Unionists oppose it. So let me put it to you, in this instance the real issue here is that the Unionists wave the flag and we pay the bill.

I suspect that this is wide of the mark. Much progress has already been made towards a single energy market across the island - more likely, the work towards a single energy market, and the high levels of commitment (i.e. funds) required from the public and private sectors from both sides of the border to introduce this have made them reluctant to immediately open the NI market up to further competition and erode the potential profit margins upon which the whole business plan for a single market on the island was based.

 

[BadFish]

I'm good thanks. I have said before I wish we had the UK attitude of the French. They dont like something they're out on the streets telling their government to do one or setting fire to British lamb. If the Brits were felling screwed over by the French would they be out igniting croissants and hurling french sticks off the white cliffs of Dover? No. Shame, as frizbee-ing a meat-feast off a cliff when you're pissed off with the Italians looks like fun.

This. Might have something to do with the fact that other European countries look after the masses better than the UK government do.