Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[pasty]

It's a case of voting for the least worst option.

Unfortunately for me, that one sentence sums up the whole of UK politics for a number of years. I know it's a cliche, but to me, they're all as bad as each other, and irrespective of different policies, each party will inevitably end up f***ing things up.

 

[Nibble]

I challenge anyone to put forward a coherant, truthful and positive argument for UKIP (other than they are taking votes from the Torys).

None of this referendum will come to pass anyway. David Cameron is getting a bit wobbly about losing votes to UKIP and so he is taking the power out of one of the main reasons people would vote UKIP, ie to get us out of the EU. Secondly the Torys will not be in power in 2017.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yeah, but you also think UKIP are a viable political party so what you "think" has proven to be fairly unreliable hasn't it.

Yes I do think they are a viable party ( they are certainly influencing policy hence today's announcement ) as are the Lib Dems, Tories, Labour and *** shudders *** the Greens. All of whom I've voted for in the past. Then again before I vote I look at each parties policies, weigh them up and then make me decision. I do that rather than making sweeping ( almost always incorrect ) generalisations about a parties members, supporters and voters - you know, exactly what you and daveinprague are suggesting UKIP do towards immigrants, gays and non-white people !

 

[User removed 4]

You have failed to explain anything good about them.
They are openly racist, they are openly bigoted, they are openly homophobic, they are openly mysoginistic....plus they are inept...what more do you need?

proof that this is indeed the case rather than just a view you've adopted as a standard labour smear tactic.

 

[dingodan]

i love the Swiss,they are historically isolationist,(with very good reason)
most people wrongly think they are separate from the EU.but they have been fully signed up members of the free EU trade agreement for 20 years or so(i think,i may be a few years out)they have been fully capable of keeping their national identity,controlling and growing their own economy without compromising their own laws and regulations,while at the same time reaping all the rewards
from being members of a free trade club

if it works for them no doubt its very possible it could work for the UK

Why don't you use the word Non-Interventionist, rather than Isolationist. It's more accurate.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I challenge anyone to put forward a coherant, truthful and positive argument for UKIP (other than they are taking votes from the Torys).

Well the most obvious one is that they actually truly support an in/out referendum on EU membership. Unlike Labour or the Tories ( one of whom has already lied and I suspect the Tories will wiggle out as well ).

 

[dingodan]

You have failed to explain anything good about them.
They are openly racist, they are openly bigoted, they are openly homophobic, they are openly mysoginistic....plus they are inept...what more do you need?

What the f*ck are you talking about? Childish ramblings, sort your life out.

 

[c0lz]

As much as I want out of the euro, I for one would not vote the Tory party because of this so called pledge.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Yes I do think they are a viable party ( they are certainly influencing policy hence today's announcement ) as are the Lib Dems, Tories, Labour and *** shudders *** the Greens. All of whom I've voted for in the past. Then again before I vote I look at each parties policies, weigh them up and then make me decision. I do that rather than making sweeping ( almost always incorrect ) generalisations about a parties members, supporters and voters - you know, exactly what you and daveinprague are suggesting UKIP do towards immigrants, gays and non-white people !

You found UKIP like I did. I used to vote for Labour, so this assumption that we are all Tories is completely wrong again. Farage speaks a lot of sense to me. Certainly not getting this from Labour, who really don't kknow where they stand.

 

[daveinprague]

Yes I do think they are a viable party ( they are certainly influencing policy hence today's announcement ) as are the Lib Dems, Tories, Labour and *** shudders *** the Greens. All of whom I've voted for in the past. Then again before I vote I look at each parties policies, weigh them up and then make me decision. I do that rather than making sweeping ( almost always incorrect ) generalisations about a parties members, supporters and voters - you know, exactly what you and daveinprague are suggesting UKIP do towards immigrants, gays and non-white people !

Dr Alan Sked, UKIP’s founder leader, 1993-97 has said: “They [UKIP] are racist
and have been infected by the far right


Dr Alan Sked (founder leader of UKIP, 1993-97) has told us that when it comes to
immigration policy, “UKIP is even less liberal than the BNP. Certainly, there is a
symbiosis between elements of the parties”.




Frank Maloney (UKIP candidate in the 2004 London mayoral election) commented
that he would not be campaigning in Camden because there are “too many gays”.
He said “I don’t want to campaign around gays… I don’t think they do a lot for
society”. Protesting that he was not homophobic, Maloney then added “In public
let’s live a proper moral life – I think that’s important”.23
In the European Parliament, UKIP has allied itself with the League of Polish
Families (LPR), an extreme nationalist party that describes homosexuality as “a
condition which is unacceptable from the moral point of view”.

 

[Nibble]

Yes I do think they are a viable party ( they are certainly influencing policy hence today's announcement ) as are the Lib Dems, Tories, Labour and *** shudders *** the Greens. All of whom I've voted for in the past. Then again before I vote I look at each parties policies, weigh them up and then make me decision. I do that rather than making sweeping ( almost always incorrect ) generalisations about a parties members, supporters and voters - you know, exactly what you and daveinprague are suggesting UKIP do towards immigrants, gays and non-white people !

So basically you just like them because you just do. Okay, sounds ace. For me, being non racist and not homophobic when the founder of a party that he admits to founding as a right wing party leaves because he believes the party has become riddled with right wing thugs and bigots then that tells me there probably is something in my argument. Plus I have looked into their background and the backgrounds of quite a few of their members and they are rather unpleasent folks. Further to that I have heard some of the arguments from people in their favour and they are wholly unconvincing and come from some borderline bigots or people that don't really have a clue.

I haven't heard one convincing argument or one example of a sound policy from any UKIP supporters. Like I say the party is a confused shambles as are UKIP supporters.

 

[User removed 4]

Does anyone else think he looks a bit like bart simpson ?

 

[Nibble]

View attachment 38903Does anyone else think he looks a bit like bart simpson ?

I;ve always though he looks like a Simpsons character. Not Apoo though obviously.

 

[User removed 4]

 

[Pavilionaire]

I heard about half of the speech and follow-up questions and I think the bulk of it was totally reasonable. Politically, though, it was genius.

 

[Nibble]

Yep, UKIP sure are the future. With candidates like this how can they fail?

Winston McKenzie asked whether UKIP are a racist party. - YouTube

 

[User removed 4]

Dr Alan Sked, UKIP’s founder leader, 1993-97 has said: “They [UKIP] are racist
and have been infected by the far right


Dr Alan Sked (founder leader of UKIP, 1993-97) has told us that when it comes to
immigration policy, “UKIP is even less liberal than the BNP. Certainly, there is a
symbiosis between elements of the parties”.




Frank Maloney (UKIP candidate in the 2004 London mayoral election) commented
that he would not be campaigning in Camden because there are “too many gays”.
He said “I don’t want to campaign around gays… I don’t think they do a lot for
society”. Protesting that he was not homophobic, Maloney then added “In public
let’s live a proper moral life – I think that’s important”.23
In the European Parliament, UKIP has allied itself with the League of Polish
Families (LPR), an extreme nationalist party that describes homosexuality as “a
condition which is unacceptable from the moral point of view”.

So this is all definitive proof is it ? Enough to smear a whole party ? You've basically printed what may or may not be the ramblings of someone who may or may not have had an axe to grind with the currrent leadership, and a quote from a celebrity candidate in frank maloney well known politician and er, boxing promoter , if so , i give you labour , party of drunken thugs ................MP fined £3,000 (and banned from pubs) for fighting in Commons bar - Crime - UK - The Independent

 

[User removed 4]

Yep, UKIP sure are the future. With candidates like this how can they fail?

Winston McKenzie asked whether UKIP are a racist party. - YouTube

Pretty much blows the racism claim out of the water though .

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So basically you just like them because you just do. Okay, sounds ace. For me, being non racist and not homophobic when the founder of a party that he admits to founding as a right wing party leaves because he believes the party has become riddled with right wing thugs and bigots then that tells me there probably is something in my argument. Plus I have looked into their background and the backgrounds of quite a few of their members and they are rather unpleasent folks. Further to that I have heard some of the arguments from people in their favour and they are wholly unconvincing and come from some borderline bigots or people that don't really have a clue.

I haven't heard one convincing argument or one example of a sound policy from any UKIP supporters. Like I say the party is a confused shambles as are UKIP supporters.

An interesting argument but not one backed up with facts.

I've been a member of UKIP ( as well as Labour and the Conservatives ) and while I came across strange people in all of them but I didn't come across anyone that matches your description. It's not too difficult to find news headlines about members or MPs acting like the examples you've selectively used from any party.

As for "So basically you just like them because you just do.", no, I've learnt to read and and so read the policy documents of each party ahead of an election and then make a balanced decision. I suggest you try it sometime. At the moment, my main concern is our membership of a corrupt, failing and disastrous EU hence I'm drawn towards UKIP. Come 2015 I'll actually do a proper comparison before I place my cross.

 

[Nibble]

Pretty much blows the racism claim out of the water though .

Black people can be racist. However the main point of this was that if their own candidates can't even present a coherant argument what chance does any of their supporters have? The main thrust of this McKenzie fella's argument seems to be "Vote for me and prove we are not the bunch of pricks people think we are". Hardly gonna set the world on fire is it. What a cackspaneer.