[News] UK Independence Day 28/29 March 2018

[Hastings gull]

Something of a distortion of the facts. The relationship between our governing process and Europe has been arrived at perfectly democratically and the European Parliament has always been something that we have again participated in perfectly democratically.

It may be a form of democracy that you don't like, among with many others, and people may perceive it as being undemocratic, but I will perfectly happily say that I do not particularly like our own democratic system. Having been of voting age for some 46 years, I have spent probably less than half that being represented by anyone I actually voted for. At least under the European voting system, there are people representing me in Parliament against whose name I have put a cross.

Is this a principled argument or simply you don't like it when you lose? Presumably you were happy when the person of your choice was elected and then all was well with the democratic system. Or am I being too cynical?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Is this a principled argument or simply you don't like it when you lose? Presumably you were happy when the person of your choice was elected and then all was well with the democratic system. Or am I being too cynical?

I have always supported the principle of proportional representation. I don't like the first past the post system - and never have - and don't like the confrontational style of politics we have - and never have.

I am well aware that an MP is there for all their constituents, and trust that for the most part they all are good constituence MPs.

But at the moment I am represented by an MP are about as far from my own on just about everything as you can get.

 

[The Rivet]

I have always supported the principle of proportional representation. I don't like the first past the post system - and never have - and don't like the confrontational style of politics we have - and never have.

I am well aware that an MP is there for all their constituents, and trust that for the most part they all are good constituence MPs.

But at the moment I am represented by an MP are about as far from my own on just about everything as you can get.

I have felt that too most of my adult life. For the first time in the referendum I happened to be on the 'winning' side and I am not about to let that go to stay in the EU in any way. ECJ, Customs union, single market or any subservience really. Shame we don't always get what we want but I guess we are all prepared to defend our stance huh?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Out of interest, where, exactly? And how come Cameron thought it didn't?

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

It has been confirmed by the High Court, which still has jurisdiction in this country not the ECJ.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry, that really is stupid. MILIONS watched David Cameron say on television that if we voted leave, we were out, that was final, and that it could not be changed. Do you seriously expect all the 34M who voted to have personally gone through the referendum act with a fine tooth comb? You're an idiot if you do. You're the one who (forlornly clutching at straws!) is trying to re-write history. Millions of the people who voted Leave (and millions who voted remain too) will not have known it was supposed to be only advisory.
David Cameron appears not to have know that either.

It doesn't matter what people know, ignorance is no defence of the law. That's why we have courts, and judges, who sometimes have to direct our own politicians. It was why Gina Miller won her case.
Why do you think David Cameron ran off with his tail between his legs?

 

[GT49er]

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

It has been confirmed by the High Court, which still has jurisdiction in this country not the ECJ.

So not actually stated in the relevant act then.

Your quote is from Full Fact, an organisation (nothing to do with the Government) owned by Will Moy - who may or may not be a remainer. According to the Joseph Rowntree Trust, "Will Moy is the Director of Full Fact, the independent and non-partisan fact checking charity."
Full Fact is also an organisation which has been refused charitable status. I've no idea why - perhaps it wasn't as neutral as it claimed?
I was looking for the actual words in the actual act which clearly stated the referendum was just a PR farce, and only advisory. I await a link.

 

[GT49er]

LOL. That leaflet does not say it is a binding referendum. It just says they will do what the results says. It does not say they HAVE to.

It says they WILL do. That commits them to implement it. Stop clutching at straws, ffs.

 

[GT49er]

It is just reading a sentence. WILL does not equal SET IN LAW.

That sentence, as you so derisively put, was voted on by 34 million of us. Now, stop clutching at straws; a firm offer was made; we took it. Perhaps you have difficulty with some basic concepts, like keeping your word?
(Not that I ever expect that from a tory leader, mind - but that is where we are. Straws are only available for sucking up the juice of sour grapes).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So not actually stated in the relevant act then.

Your quote is from Full Fact, an organisation (nothing to do with the Government) owned by Will Moy - who may or may not be a remainer. According to the Joseph Rowntree Trust, "Will Moy is the Director of Full Fact, the independent and non-partisan fact checking charity."
Full Fact is also an organisation which has been refused charitable status. I've no idea why - perhaps it wasn't as neutral as it claimed?
I was looking for the actual words in the actual act which clearly stated the referendum was just a PR farce, and only advisory. I await a link.

It says they WILL do. That commits them to implement it. Stop clutching at straws, ffs.

In Britain, a referendum has to add the words for it to be legally binding, such as the Proportional Reprresentation question. The fact that it didn't automatically meant it was advisory only. That's what the article explained, and was agreed by the High Court.

A leaflet is no more legally binding than a slogan (lie) on a bus.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

In Britain, a referendum has to add the words for it to be legally binding, such as the Proportional Reprresentation question. The fact that it didn't automatically meant it was advisory only. That's what the article explained, and was agreed by the High Court.

A leaflet is no more legally binding than a slogan (lie) on a bus.

It was constantly mentioned in the campaign that the referendum was advisory and not legally binding. I must have read it or heard it on the radio over 100 times at least.

Not that that makes any practical difference in what happens now.

 

[blue'n'white]

At 11 pm ?

Oh yes - when Britain exits the EU the sun will shine 24/7 and all will be fair. You'll be able to play golf at whatever time of day or night you wish for we will be free !

 

[GT49er]

It was constantly mentioned in the campaign that the referendum was advisory and not legally binding. I must have read it or heard it on the radio over 100 times at least.

You might have heard it 100 times, but millions read the leaflet, and watched Cameron's address to the nation. That may not make it technically legally binding, but millions of people believed it was (presumably having not heard anything to the contrary 100 times).

Not that that makes any practical difference in what happens now.

Precisely.

 

[5ways]

At least we can both agree their intransigence is to blame and it continues to this day. I still can't believe anyone seriously argued that if we had voted in we would be able to change the EU in a direction more to our liking or hold off the conveyorbelt to ever closer union. Delusional ...

Well you know what I think, we had a fantastic deal with cast-iron opt outs. Best of both worlds but ho-hum.

 

[beorhthelm]

Well you know what I think, we had a fantastic deal with cast-iron opt outs*. Best of both worlds but ho-hum.

(*subject to change, terms and conditions apply)

 

[5ways]

(*subject to change, terms and conditions apply)

Whereas Brexit is all certainty and clarity.

 

[Two Professors]

Whereas Brexit is all certainty and clarity.

Well somebody has to show Poland,Hungary,etc.how it's done.Great Britain has always been a pioneering country,despite the bitter & twisted saying to the contrary.

 

[nicko31]

Well somebody has to show Poland,Hungary,etc.how it's done.Great Britain has always been a pioneering country,despite the bitter & twisted saying to the contrary.

Think they are showing us how its done right now with the fastest growing economies in Europe. Meanwhile we bump along the bottom, maybe your mate John Redwood is right where to invest right now