[Politics] Trump's new gender executive order...

[Pevenseagull]

I suggest you read his book to find out

If I wrote an autobiographical book about an issue that I was passionate about I reckon I would come out of it a lot better than I deserved to.

 

[n1 gull]

He's an anti transgender activist who nevertheless defended his anti trangender comedy episode as "harmless".
Make your mind up, old son

"Linehan is involved in anti-transgender activism.[31] He began making anti-trans statements online after the 2008 episode "The Speech" of The IT Crowd, written by Linehan, was widely criticised as transphobic and sexist.[32][20] Critics said it used gender stereotypes and trivialised violence against transgender women.[33] The episode features a man who learns that his girlfriend is transgender and gets into a fight with her.[34][35][36] Channel 4 removed the episode from syndication and streaming in 2020.[34] Linehan felt the joke was "harmless" and says he did not understand the "ferocity" of the response, arguing that a transphobic character did not make him or the episode transphobic.[37][36]

Linehan said he was sceptical of gender self-identification, objecting to "privileged white people saying you must accept anyone who says they are a woman". He said that "anyone suffering from gender dysphoria needs to be helped and supported", but he voiced concern over early transgender intervention for children.[36] He used the social network Twitter to criticise "trans ideology", which he believes misrepresents transgender people and lesbians.[38]"

Edit and see post #118

Well obviously I disagree with this/your assessment

Maybe if you can be arsed read his book for a different perspective

I understand this is a divisive subject so I'm going to duck out

 

[Pevenseagull]

Well obviously I disagree with this/your assessment

Maybe if you can be arsed read his book for a different perspective

I understand this is a divisive subject so I'm going to duck out

Didn't want to be confrontational in any way. But I did think it was important to express my opinion that his contribution to a subject that has legitimate concerns isn't great.

Up the Albion and all that.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Like many things I firmly believe that social media has thrown a colossal spanner into this "argument"

Trans people aren't some brand new phenomena. In some capacity people have been blurring the lines of gender for hundreds of years and even medically the first gender affirming surgery was not far off a hundred years ago

Even recently back when people actually regularly watched Soaps, one of our most beloved characters was a trans woman, with her wedding being one of the most watched episodes of anything in the 00s.

Likewise back when Big Brother was HUGE, their second most watched series in the shows history was won by a trans woman- voted for by the public. I simply don't remember any controversy about it at all

social media has removed people's ability to see beyond black and white on this issue- with a vulnerable minority at the center of it

Well said I hate the way people treat this as a new issue. We had accepted this as a society decades ago but now a few nut jobs like Lineham have decided to make a big deal about it. Amped up by political figures as yet another group to kick whilst their down as a distraction for the shitshow they have left the country in.

 

[A1X]

If I wrote an autobiographical book about an issue that I was passionate about I reckon I would come out of it a lot better than I deserved to.

 

[Motogull]

I've joked before that we should just signpost the gents with a picture of a cock and balls, and the ladies with the same but in a circle and crossed through.

Yes indeed. Imagine the potential avoidance of awkwardness, especially in certain foreign countries:

• You think you are chatting up a girl, but the toilet choice indicates she is a ladyboy.
• You think you are chatting up a ladyboy but the toilet choice confirms no todger.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well obviously I disagree with this/your assessment

Maybe if you can be arsed read his book for a different perspective

I understand this is a divisive subject so I'm going to duck out

Probably for the best

 

[Zeberdi]

It's just my opinion, and I accept that it's controversial to some, but I don't think people who were born male should be allowed in female private spaces. There are examples where women have been harmed as a result of this, for examples in toilets or in prisons. I don't think people born male should be allowed to compete in women's sport, as they usually have some advantage, if not a significant one.

Men are naturally stronger than women and so women need more protection in their lives. Even though there are likely as many bad women as there are bad men, the bad men are a greater threat to women, than vice versa... and that fact doesn't change if their genders are not the same as the sex they are born with.

Agree with some of what you say but ‘we‘ (the public) need to avoid stereotyping all transgenders as potential sexual predators - that’s no more true than thinking “all lesbian women prey on other women” or “all gay men prey on young boys”. It is from deeply buried (or not so deeply buried for some people) prejudices rooted in society that believes anything other than heterosexual men or women who are physically “all” men or “all“ women from birth is a form of “sexual deviance” or “gender aberration” rather than a matter of sexual “preference“ or gender “self-identification”.

However, the point about physical disparity is a very valid one - men are generally (noting with a proviso @FamilyGuy’s comments above) stronger and taller than women - that fact alone puts women at a physical disadvantage in violent situations (including sexual violence) so yes, how women feel about themselves in terms of their physical vulnerability should be an important part of the dialogue. People of colour feel vulnerable in predominately white, high risk environments and vice versa, gay men feel vulnerable in predominantly straight, potential high risk environments (ie isolated places, at night, in drinking and club environments etc). Whether the risk is very real or not, the fears and sense of vulnerability must be validated.

I think it the whole debate around gender neutral spaces is an important one to be had but it needs to be done by fully engaging with diverse gender identities and people with a range of sexual preferences. I think it’s particularly important to appreciate that women/transgender/men experience particular vulnerabilities specific to their gender, as do LBGT because of their sexual preferences.

 

[BadFish]

It's strange how throughout thousands of years of various civilisations all over the world, gender has been recognised as being fluid and quite complex and is reflected throughout all of their literature, philosophy and arts.

But they didn't have Internet posters to explain that really it's simple did they

It has to be presented as simple for those people.

The lack of understanding comes through in every post.

 

[BadFish]

It's mainly a female issue as it is their rights that are affected

Women's sport, Women's shelters, Women's toilets, Women's changing rooms, Women's prisons, Women's only groups including lesbian groups, Women's breast feeding classes etc...

I'm not an expert but I've done a bit of reading - Helen Joyce, Katherine Stock, JK Rowling and I recommend the Graham Lineham book which is about how he got cancelled from the entertainment industry for his views on the subject

I would also recommend Graham Lineham's book as is charts the sad fall of one of our great comedy writers into a weird and all consuming obsession with a subject he lacks the balance to understand fully.

I would also add his cancellation is explained without need to read between the lines very much as his family, friends and colleagues (including his wife) pointing this fall out to him and him being unable to reverse it.

I feel incredible sorry for the guy. He became so obsessed with protecting women in a space they barely need protecting that he threw away his career. As per my previous post it baffles me why he didn't choose to put his time and energies into helping with domestic violence, date rape, or any of the other more dangerous situations women face.

His social circles told him and tried to help him but his obsession was too strong. Nope not was, is, he is still going.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Why would anyone outside the transgender community have read this? How much do you trust its impartiality?

As much as I trust Stock’s analysis to be honest. LGB Alliance: nutters.

 

[AlbionBro]

At least the RIP threads are thinning

They are for me, as I ignore every RIP thread I see now, perhaps I should read who it's about first!

 

[The Clamp]

I would also recommend Graham Lineham's book as is charts the sad fall of one of our great comedy writers into a weird and all consuming obsession with a subject he lacks the balance to understand fully.

I would also add his cancellation is explained without need to read between the lines very much as his family, friends and colleagues (including his wife) pointing this fall out to him and him being unable to reverse it.

I feel incredible sorry for the guy. He became so obsessed with protecting women in a space they barely need protecting that he threw away his career. As per my previous post it baffles me why he didn't choose to put his time and energies into helping with domestic violence, date rape, or any of the other more dangerous situations women face.

His social circles told him and tried to help him but his obsession was too strong. Nope not was, is, he is still going.

I’ve read his book.

He has certainly got himself lost in a rabbit hole of strange interpretations and bizarre ideas.

I can see some of his concerns but they are easily addressed and put to rest.

It’s a shame. He did some great stuff and now appears broken and lost.

 

[BadFish]

I’ve read his book.

He has certainly got himself lost in a rabbit hole of strange interpretations and bizarre ideas.

I can see some of his concerns but they are easily addressed and put to rest.

It’s a shame. He did some great stuff and now appears broken and lost.

I found the second half of his book similar to interviews I have watched with him talking about trans issues.

As you suggest his genuine and reasonable concerns are quickly over taken but the obsessions and weird takes

The moral of his book was to listen to those close to you when they tell you you are disappearing down a rabbit hole.

 

[The Clamp]

I found the second half of his book similar to interviews I have watched with him talking about trans issues.

As you suggest his genuine and reasonable concerns are quickly over taken but the obsessions and weird takes

The moral of his book was to listen to those close to you when they tell you you are disappearing down a rabbit hole.

Absolutely agree.

 

[TugWilson]

Are you really going to have a new thread for everything that muppet does? Good grief.

What a "muppet" that words a document wrongly or a creature that today wants to be a cat but hang on tomorrow after Dr Who is a feckin Silurian ?.

 

[TugWilson]

One notable thing about Trump's first term, which is already being repeated, is how bad his lawyers and acolytes were at producing unambiguous or just correctly worded documents. They seem to churn out said documents in a stream of consciousness process with little review and editing by well-educated adults.

Would that be like the well educated adults on this thread that fully know that what he is stating ( albeit) inaccurately is that there are 2 (TWO) sexes and no more . If you wish to be a smart arse because you don`t like Trump that`s fine , but don`t try and re-write f****n evolution to do it , cos that makes you DUMB .

 

[TugWilson]

Although some of the women may have physical features that may surprise you. Perhaps go to Thailand for a dummy run.

But they are still the sex that they were born as regardless of how they look - yes ?

 

[nsclurker]

One notable thing about Trump's first term, which is already being repeated, is how bad his lawyers and acolytes were at producing unambiguous or just correctly worded documents. They seem to churn out said documents in a stream of consciousness process with little review and editing by well-educated adults.

Many of them appear to be poorly AI generated:

Trump Admin Accused of Using AI to Draft Executive Orders

Artifacts in Trump's executive orders have led to speculation that those who penned them might have turned to AI for help.

futurism.com

 

[TugWilson]

I see no wailing or gnashing of teeth on this thread. Maybe you are right, I don't know. But we can be guaranteed there is plenty to come. Such as his statement that America first split the atom. That happened in Manchester.

Someone challenges your comment and you bring an unconnected topic to answer him - why would that be ?