[News] Tragedy in Solihull

[Poojah]

Oh blimey, that's horrendous. How old was she?

She was 33, only 4 years younger than me, but my mate’s a bit older than I am and had her very young (mid-teens).

She was unable to walk from birth so was wheelchair bound but a very bright, independent lady nonetheless. I don’t know what the cause of the fire was, nor whether her not being able to walk was a factor or not, but to lose your child like that out of the blue, in the middle of the day, must beyond agonising.

Understandably, I think the family are struggling to come to terms with it. The funeral will be the first time I have seen them since it happened; I’ve no idea what I’ll say.

 

[Cornwallboy]

Just to be clear, am I right in thinking, based on your posts above:
You don't think the emergency services deserve any praise for risking their lives to save others,
You think any member of the emergency services should jump in to save somebody in distress, regardless of whether they are trained or equipped to do so, or whether their actual job in any way applies to the situation at hand,
You personally would not be willing to risk your life in a similar situation (which to be fair is a level of honesty that is, in itself, admirable).

When did I say they don't deserve any praise for risking their lives to save others?
Correct.
I honestly could not answer, I have no idea how I would react if faced with a similar situation. Yes I could give a 'course I would've jumped in to try and save them' answer but I can't guarantee I would, but as stated earlier I didn't opt to be in the emergency services so hopefully I'll never be faced with such a situation.

But absolutely I think on Sunday afternoon the Police who attended had an absolute duty to do all they could to try and rescue the children and if it entailed risking their own lives to do it then so be it, if you don't want to be exposed to risk then working in the emergency services isn't a job for you. It certainly isn't for me.

 

[Cornwallboy]

please see my post above

As I said, no one, not even a Policeman, is obliged to commit suicide.

The fact that one tragically lost his life doing what clearly was a life threatening rescue, should be hailed as a hero not be regarded or even downplayed as someone who we can say of ‘well he chose to be a Policeman and therefore rightly assumed the risk’! - so perhaps your post got the response it deserved?

Obliged to commit suicide? Or do the job you are paid to do which you know carries an element of risk? How could a policeman look a parent in the eye and say 'no I didn't try and rescue your child as I felt it to be too risky.'

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Copied from today’s news report. The police did try.

• Heartbreak and heroism: Lake deaths community unites

Members of the public and police officers initially went into the water to try to get the children, before they were reached by specialist water rescue-trained firefighters.
West Midlands Police said one of its officers had to punch through the ice to try to rescue the boys.

 

[Zeberdi]

But absolutely I think on Sunday afternoon the Police who attended had an absolute duty to do all they could to try and rescue the children and if it entailed risking their own lives to do it then so be it, if you don't want to be exposed to risk then working in the emergency services isn't a job for you. It certainly isn't for me.

You seem to think ‘risk’ is an either or - it’s not! Risk has to be quantified then assessed according to the level of the participant- if you read my post on the previous page, I stated what the Police’s ( or any public service officer/caregiver ) is.

I worked in many professional environments where I have also been trained in self-risk assessment prior to attempting rescue of others - For the 3rd time - there is no legal duty to commit suicide in any profession - an objective risk assessment to self must be first priority before helping anyone in a professional situation.

Unfortunately sometimes people’s emotions at seeing other people fighting for their lives, particularly loved ones, they may be blinded to the risk or simply don’t care or their moral imperatives as human beings override all of that - But don’t impose that as a duty or professional obligation please.

The fact that Police on the scene did attempt rescue and the fact one of them died doing so makes your comments odious to me.

 

[drew]

What do you mean by that?

I think he means that he thinks you're a loathsome, obnoxious callous **** but said it in fewer words!!! Of course I might be wrong but had I posted 'f*** Me' that's what I'd have meant. Perhaps one day someone will stand by and watch members of your family die and you can tell them you'd have done the same.

 

[atfc village]

Just awful.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I think he means that he thinks you're a loathsome, obnoxious callous **** but said it in fewer words!!! Of course I might be wrong but had I posted 'f*** Me' that's what I'd have meant. Perhaps one day someone will stand by and watch members of your family die and you can tell them you'd have done the same.

What is callous about me saying the Police should've done all they could to try and save the lives of the young children? They are in the emergency services, they've signed up to do a dangerous job. I greatly them for it. I think the second sentence of your post is disgraceful.

 

[Cornwallboy]

You seem to think ‘risk’ is an either or - it’s not! Risk has to be quantified then assessed according to the level of the participant- if you read my post on the previous page, I stated what the Police’s ( or any public service officer/caregiver ) is.

I worked in many professional environments where I have also been trained in self-risk assessment prior to attempting rescue of others - For the 3rd time - there is no legal duty to commit suicide in any profession - an objective risk assessment to self must be first priority before helping anyone in a professional situation.

Unfortunately sometimes people’s emotions at seeing other people fighting for their lives, particularly loved ones, they may be blinded to the risk or simply don’t care or their moral imperatives as human beings override all of that - But don’t impose that as a duty or professional obligation please.

The fact that Police on the scene did attempt rescue and the fact one of them died doing so makes your comments odious to me.

I didn't ever say the Police on the scene didn't attempt to rescue the children I merely said it's there job to do so and it is. Being in the Police / Fire Brigade comes with an element of risk such as Sunday afternoon in Solihull.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

When did I say they don't deserve any praise for risking their lives to save others?

This was Drew's post (your bold):
"Praise to the Police that entered the water to try and save them. Credit to the fire service as well although they did have the benefit of special equipment which the Police didn't."
This was your reply:

That's their job.

I'm not sure how else to interpret that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

What is callous about me saying the Police should've done all they could to try and save the lives of the young children? They are in the emergency services, they've signed up to do a dangerous job. I greatly them for it. I think the second sentence of your post is disgraceful.

And I'm sure you're really proud of what you have done to this thread,

I actually think you are now more of a c*** than when your last account got banned (and trust me, that's an achievement)

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

But absolutely I think on Sunday afternoon the Police who attended had an absolute duty to do all they could to try and rescue the children and if it entailed risking their own lives to do it then so be it, if you don't want to be exposed to risk then working in the emergency services isn't a job for you. It certainly isn't for me.

Just because somebody is in one of the emergency services does not mean that they are all purpose action heroes. It's like expecting a paramedic to rescue you from a burning building, now matter how much it's the right thing to do, it's not what their job.
In this case, the police did attempt to rescue them, and one of them ended up in hospital as a result, so most of the health and safety and risk assessment bashing on this thread is entirely misplaced.

 

[Cornwallboy]

And I'm sure you're really proud of what you have done to this thread,

I actually think you are now more of a c*** than when your last account got banned (and trust me, that's an achievement)

Keyboard warrior. Easy to dish out insults online isn't it.

 

[Cornwallboy]

This was Drew's post (your bold):
"Praise to the Police that entered the water to try and save them. Credit to the fire service as well although they did have the benefit of special equipment which the Police didn't."
This was your reply:

I'm not sure how else to interpret that.

Because it is their job!! What were the Police supposed to do when they arrived at the scene on Sunday, carry out a full 'risk assessment?'

 

[drew]

And I'm sure you're really proud of what you have done to this thread,

I actually think you are now more of a c*** than when your last account got banned (and trust me, that's an achievement)

Out of interest, why is someone that has previously been banned allowed to create a another account? What's the point of the ban in the first place?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Out of interest, why is someone that has previously been banned allowed to create a another account? What's the point of the ban in the first place?

Buggered if I know when it's so stupidly obvious

I suspect it's bloody wokey liberal mods

 

[Cornwallboy]

Out of interest, why is someone that has previously been banned allowed to create a another account? What's the point of the ban in the first place?

How do you know I've previously been banned? Can't your delicate little soul take someone on here you disagree with ? So your answer is to ban someone if you disagree with them? Didn't see you getting stuck into the poster today who said he would be extremely miffed if it was his grandson drowning and the police didn't attempt to rescue him. To clarify I have absolutely nothing but admiration for the Emergency Services, but I do think the job does comes with risks, such as the incident on Sunday.

 

[portlock seagull]

Surely trying to save lives should come before a risk assessment? To me it's f**k to the risk assessment and wade in and try and save the lives of little ones.

Dead heroes are useless though. Not that I’m saying you’d be a hero…

 

[Zeberdi]

But absolutely I think on Sunday afternoon the Police who attended had an absolute duty to do all they could to try and rescue the children and if it entailed risking their own lives to do it then so be it, if you don't want to be exposed to risk then working in the emergency services isn't a job for you.

r do the job you are paid to do which you know carries an element of risk

I didn't ever say the Police on the scene didn't attempt to rescue the children I merely said it's there job to do so and it is. Being in the Police / Fire Brigade comes with an element of risk such as Sunday afternoon in Solihull.

I think you are a bit of a mission creep here - no one has said that the Police don’t have any duty to assist members of the public in danger.

But you started out saying that ‘they have a duty to risk their lives’. They don’t- they have a duty to protect life including their own.

Do you honestly think a fire Chief looking at a burning building and assesses it to be very near total collapse is going to send his fire crew into the building to rescue a kid on the 3rd floor?

 

[portlock seagull]

Yes it is. I didn't say they 'need to forfeit their lives to save others' but it is part of their job to enter dangerous environments to try and save jobs.

To save jobs? I don’t think any Police put themselves at risk to save jobs.