[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[chickens]

Please tell me those are the ratings from within the party, because it would mean that the members are giving negative ratings and then voting for those same people to run the country. I'm guessing not, as it really isn't possible to reach that lower level of gross stupidity........


... is it ?

These people are MORONS, can we have them for four more years please.

 

[beorhthelm]

I agree but it poses an interesting question: If there is a desire of the people (remembering democracy literally means 'people rule') for constitutional change but the constitution has created a monopoly of power for only two parties that have an overriding self interest to prevent change, how can the will of the people ever be implemented? Demonstrations are possible of course, but again it is in the interests of the ruling party (Lab or Cons) to ignore them and they can.
Do we turn to the King (which opens up another set of constitutional issues), civil unrest (thankfully not in the British DNA when it comes to politics and is surely not want anyone wants) or do we simply accept that our 'great democracy' is a sham and not much better than the bogus democracies in countries like Russia?

how about this: there isnt much desire for constitutional change, the people are content with the status quo. if this was the burning number 1 issue, they'd vote for the option providing it and Lib Dems would romp home to victory. there's nothing in the constitution that prevents a new party winning, its just the pesky voters content with the options in front of them. see Labour's rise over Liberals as the champion for social reform.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

how about this: there isnt much desire for constitutional change, the people are content with the status quo. if this was the burning number 1 issue, they'd vote for the option providing it and Lib Dems would romp home to victory. there's nothing in the constitution that prevents a new party winning, its just the pesky voters content with the options in front of them. see Labour's rise over Liberals as the champion for social reform.

By that logic, everybody should stop moaning about Brexit because if anybody really cared about it they'd have voted Lib Dem in 2017 or 2019.
You don't have to go back as far as the 1920s, the SNP managed to win over 90% of Scottish seats less than 10years ago. Which I struggle to believe delighted the 50% of voters who had voted for other parties.

 

[BLOCK F]

...or the tories remain the toxic brand they are at present.

I think it unlikely that either of the main parties ‘lose their marbles’ for ever.
Labour had to cleanse themselves of the Corbyn disaster and the Tories will do likewise during a much needed suitable period in Opposition. It is obviously no good for democracy to have only one party in power for ever and it is in the country’s interest to have a strong Opposition whichever party is in power.

 

[Bodian]

It is obviously no good for democracy to have only one party in power for ever and it is in the country’s interest to have a strong Opposition whichever party is in power.

I'd be quite happy with a left-leaning party and a centrist party alternating being in power and opposition. They don't have to be quite so polarised.

 

[chickens]

I think it unlikely that either of the main parties ‘lose their marbles’ for ever.
Labour had to cleanse themselves of the Corbyn disaster and the Tories will do likewise during a much needed suitable period in Opposition. It is obviously no good for democracy to have only one party in power for ever and it is in the country’s interest to have a strong Opposition whichever party is in power.

I agree completely, but on both occasions within my living memory, the times that the Conservative Party have been in power, by the end of their “reign” the country has absolutely been on its knees.

I can 100% see myself getting sick of a Labour government in the future, and I can 100% see myself voting for another party in the future, but I will not cast a vote for the Conservative Party again in my lifetime.

If we’re stuck with this 2 party system induced by FPTP then so be it, but could we not swap out the incompetent financial terrorism of the Conservatives for something a little less ideological and insane?

I think life could actually be quite pleasant in this country if we alternated between e.g. the Lib Dem’s and Labour.

 

[medwayseagull reborn]

That wasn't my opinion: there was a survey two weeks ago looking at possible Conservative leaders (among the electorate, not members) and she was the only senior Tory with a positive rating. It was only 2% but it was lot better than Suella Braverman's minus 40.

She only got that positive rating because she proved she could stroll around Westminster Abbey holding a sword upright.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I agree completely, but on both occasions within my living memory, the times that the Conservative Party have been in power, by the end of their “reign” the country has absolutely been on its knees.

I can 100% see myself getting sick of a Labour government in the future, and I can 100% see myself voting for another party in the future, but I will not cast a vote for the Conservative Party again in my lifetime.

If we’re stuck with this 2 party system induced by FPTP then so be it, but could we not swap out the incompetent financial terrorism of the Conservatives for something a little less ideological and insane?

I think life could actually be quite pleasant in this country if we alternated between e.g. the Lib Dem’s and Labour.

That's not strictly true. After the debacle of Black Wednesday in 1992, the economy recovered very well and in 1997 was growing strongly.
Ironically, 1997 was the best ever year for economic growth under Blair/Brown Labour and most of that was down the policies put in place by Major in the year leading up to the election.
Rather than the country, it was the Conservative Party itself that was on its knees, much like the knight in Monty Python.
In another bit of irony, I think history will repeat itself, with any recovery coming too late to save Sunak and his disunified party, but allowing a kick start for Starmer and co.

 

[BLOCK F]

I agree completely, but on both occasions within my living memory, the times that the Conservative Party have been in power, by the end of their “reign” the country has absolutely been on its knees.

I can 100% see myself getting sick of a Labour government in the future, and I can 100% see myself voting for another party in the future, but I will not cast a vote for the Conservative Party again in my lifetime.

If we’re stuck with this 2 party system induced by FPTP then so be it, but could we not swap out the incompetent financial terrorism of the Conservatives for something a little less ideological and insane?

I think life could actually be quite pleasant in this country if we alternated between e.g. the Lib Dem’s and Labour.

That is your view, but not one that everyone will agree with.
The ‘incompetent financial terrorism’ you mention has not always been a hallmark of Conservative Governments and I refer you to the reply from Seagulls Over London.
If the Conservatives want to get back into power again, and succeed, it will be because they will have come to their senses in Opposition to once again become a party of the centre right, rather like Sir Keir has had to ditch the lunatic Corbynistas and steer Labour back to the centre left.

 

[A1X]

 

[chickens]

That's not strictly true. After the debacle of Black Wednesday in 1992, the economy recovered very well and in 1997 was growing strongly.
Ironically, 1997 was the best ever year for economic growth under Blair/Brown Labour and most of that was down the policies put in place by Major in the year leading up to the election.
Rather than the country, it was the Conservative Party itself that was on its knees, much like the knight in Monty Python.
In another bit of irony, I think history will repeat itself, with any recovery coming too late to save Sunak and his disunified party, but allowing a kick start for Starmer and co.

Perhaps in a “numbers” sense it was, but my overriding memory of that period was a lot of empty shops until about 12 months after Labour were in power.

I also think it’s possible to do so much damage to an economy that there’s no more downside available, any underlying assets are already trading at a discount to their true value.

Praising the Conservative Party for the economy recovering after Black Wednesday is a bit like praising a drunk driver for rolling his car the right way up after he’s slid it upside down through a class of schoolchildren.

 

[chickens]

That is your view, but not one that everyone will agree with.
The ‘incompetent financial terrorism’ you mention has not always been a hallmark of Conservative Governments and I refer you to the reply from Seagulls Over London.
If the Conservatives want to get back into power again, and succeed, it will be because they will have come to their senses in Opposition to once again become a party of the centre right, rather like Sir Keir has had to ditch the lunatic Corbynistas and steer Labour back to the centre left.

While I agree with you that the path back to acceptability for the Conservative Party is to regain their “we’re moderate and chummy” face a la Cameron, I think the issue now is that the electorate knows what lurks beneath.

All the while there’s a Rees-Mogg, an Anderson, and Braverman, Truss, Patel et al lurking behind whatever new face they find, the Conservative Party are not sound.

I am honestly not detecting any appetite to lose those individuals at present, in fact the clamour from card carrying members appears to be to remould the party in their image.

I will absolutely vote against Labour at some point, every government goes stale, but I do wonder if the Conservatives have done so much damage this time that the electorate has genuinely had enough of them. However chummy they get.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I am not sure I believe this, I am not sure I dont believe this.

Scumbag company v scumbag government.

 

[Hugo Rune]

While I agree with you that the path back to acceptability for the Conservative Party is to regain their “we’re moderate and chummy” face a la Cameron, I think the issue now is that the electorate knows what lurks beneath.

All the while there’s a Rees-Mogg, an Anderson, and Braverman, Truss, Patel et al lurking behind whatever new face they find, the Conservative Party are not sound.

I am honestly not detecting any appetite to lose those individuals at present, in fact the clamour from card carrying members appears to be to remould the party in their image.

I will absolutely vote against Labour at some point, every government goes stale, but I do wonder if the Conservatives have done so much damage this time that the electorate has genuinely had enough of them. However chummy they get.

They voted Truss in as leader. Given the choice, I suspect they’d do the same during the next Tory leadership contest (in about a year) if offered the same ‘tax cut’ promise. They are too old to change or admit they were wrong about the Lettuce.

The Conservatives won’t change until their membership does. I imagine it needs a decade or so for the vast majority of them to die off.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Perhaps in a “numbers” sense it was, but my overriding memory of that period was a lot of empty shops until about 12 months after Labour were in power.

I also think it’s possible to do so much damage to an economy that there’s no more downside available, any underlying assets are already trading at a discount to their true value.

Praising the Conservative Party for the economy recovering after Black Wednesday is a bit like praising a drunk driver for rolling his car the right way up after he’s slid it upside down through a class of schoolchildren.

I am not going to disagree with you that there was an element of accidental recovery, i.e. the forced devaluation brought a number of fortuitous benefits, and the Tories were seen as a totally spent force with no ideas. The damage from the recession in 1990 then the calamity of Black Wednesday made it unlikely that they could be trusted to run the economy. Their credibility was shot, but ironically at the point where they had managed to more than steady the ship.
Labour enjoyed the bounce.

Btw, I am not an apologist for the Conservative Party, and as I live in hope that Starmar will be able to repeat the trick, although I suspect he will have a harder time than Blair because our economic decline is rather more entrenched.

 

[BLOCK F]

While I agree with you that the path back to acceptability for the Conservative Party is to regain their “we’re moderate and chummy” face a la Cameron, I think the issue now is that the electorate knows what lurks beneath.

All the while there’s a Rees-Mogg, an Anderson, and Braverman, Truss, Patel et al lurking behind whatever new face they find, the Conservative Party are not sound.

I am honestly not detecting any appetite to lose those individuals at present, in fact the clamour from card carrying members appears to be to remould the party in their image.

I will absolutely vote against Labour at some point, every government goes stale, but I do wonder if the Conservatives have done so much damage this time that the electorate has genuinely had enough of them. However chummy they get.

It is amazing what ten years in Opposition can do to bring a party, who wants to regain power, back to its senses.
I wonder what party you will vote for if you ever get get fed up with Labour.

 

[chickens]

It is amazing what ten years in Opposition can do to bring a party who wants to regain power back to its senses.
I wonder what party you will vote for if you ever get get fed up with Labour.

Time will tell. As to which party I’ll be voting for when Labour inevitably go stale, it will be whichever party seems:

a) least “bought and sold”
b) capable of governing responsibly
c) “long-termist” in terms of their thinking.
d) has at least an outside chance of being elected.

However, the current Conservative master plan of:

1. Cut taxes
2. ?
3. Success!

Isn’t one that I will ever subscribe to or vote for. We’ve all seen where it leads, it leads to nothing good.

 

[A1X]

 

[chickens]

Sadly, I can’t argue with the (rather negative) analysis.

 

[Lever]

I think it unlikely that either of the main parties ‘lose their marbles’ for ever.
Labour had to cleanse themselves of the Corbyn disaster and the Tories will do likewise during a much needed suitable period in Opposition. It is obviously no good for democracy to have only one party in power for ever and it is in the country’s interest to have a strong Opposition whichever party is in power.