[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Machiavelli]

Whatever it is, it isn't a "now" phenomenon. Looking at by-election turnouts since 1979, there's a clear reduction in average turnouts. Across 79-22, the average is 50.2% apparently. But if you look at the graphed timeline, you've got the 80's running around 60%, then a gradual decline through the early-mid 90's towards 50%, and then a bit of a step-change lower from 97/98ish to sit around 40%.

The last 15 average 37.88%, but that average is dragged down by 3 sub-30% turnouts; although even the lowest of those 3 isn't out of the ordinary as there were comparatively similar (indeed, slightly lower) turnouts in the late 90's and then again in the early 10's.

All the metrics are down for party politics and electoral turnouts. And that's because the electoral-representative regime is acting against the demos, and the demos sense it. They haven't worked out what to do about it, and perhaps never will, but it's a very prevalent phenomenon.

 

[Machiavelli]

Now this going to annoy some people, but if you were advising the Conservative party what strategic changes would you suggest to close the polls with Labour ?

Put allegiances to one side.

No idea what you're asking.
It might be about what the Cons can do in these circumstances. If you want a cogent answer, then listen to what Henry Hill says on tonight's C4 News or, if you prefer, read what he says on conservativehome. Katy Balls is worth paying attention to too.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Now this going to annoy some people, but if you were advising the Conservative party what strategic changes would you suggest to close the polls with Labour ?

Put allegiances to one side.

adopt sensible policies that appeal to the centre ground. Abandon rwanda, the war on the war on motorists, drill baby drill, all the red meat stuff that is appealing to the right but turning off the middle-ground, and instead deal with these real issues in a pragmatic, grown-up, responsible manner.

Still won't win but will narrow the polls.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

WHERE’S PERCY TAU

More importantly, where is:

TOTAL NOISE TERROR
FUN WITH DRUGS
FUTILE NAZI BASTARD
and
ELVIS IS DEAD

? Eh? EH?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Unfortunately, the only way of ensuring a similar cabal don't take over one of the two parties and get absolute power again is by changing the voting system, and I don't think that's going to happen

I agree with you.

It won't.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

NO SOUTH AFRICANS!

To make it a proper tory slogan it should be:

NO SOUTH AFRICAN'S

 

[Bodian]

More importantly, where is:

TOTAL NOISE TERROR
FUN WITH DRUGS
FUTILE NAZI BASTARD
and
ELVIS IS DEAD

? Eh? EH?

I think we need a bit of alliteration as well:

MAKING MATES MONEY

or maybe simply

STUFF THE POOR

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think we need a bit of alliteration as well:

MAKING MATES MONEY

or maybe simply

STUFF THE POOR

Top alliteration

COULD DO BETTER

aka

COMEDY COCKUP CHUM

 

[Gwylan]

Now this going to annoy some people, but if you were advising the Conservative party what strategic changes would you suggest to close the polls with Labour ?

Put allegiances to one side.

Elect Penny Mordaunt as leader - the one that Labour fear and the only Tory with a positive approval rating among voters. I'm not sure she'd win but would greatly reduce the Labour majority and possible lead to a hung parliament.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Elect Penny Mordaunt as leader - the one that Labour fear and the only Tory with a positive approval rating among voters. I'm not sure she'd win but would greatly reduce the Labour majority and possible lead to a hung parliament.

I’m not so sure he has a positive approval rating. She’s definitely a proven liar.

 

[Motogull]

I’m not so sure he has a positive approval rating. She’s definitely a proven liar.

Her younger brother hasn't done her any favours.

 

[abc]

Unfortunately, the only way of ensuring a similar cabal don't take over one of the two parties and get absolute power again is by changing the voting system, and I don't think that's going to happen

I agree but it poses an interesting question: If there is a desire of the people (remembering democracy literally means 'people rule') for constitutional change but the constitution has created a monopoly of power for only two parties that have an overriding self interest to prevent change, how can the will of the people ever be implemented? Demonstrations are possible of course, but again it is in the interests of the ruling party (Lab or Cons) to ignore them and they can.
Do we turn to the King (which opens up another set of constitutional issues), civil unrest (thankfully not in the British DNA when it comes to politics and is surely not want anyone wants) or do we simply accept that our 'great democracy' is a sham and not much better than the bogus democracies in countries like Russia?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I agree but it poses an interesting question: If there is a desire of the people (remembering democracy literally means 'people rule') for constitutional change but the constitution has created a monopoly of power for only two parties that have an overriding self interest to prevent change, how can the will of the people ever be implemented? Demonstrations are possible of course, but again it is in the interests of the ruling party (Lab or Cons) to ignore them and they can.
Do we turn to the King (which opens up another set of constitutional issues), civil unrest (thankfully not in the British DNA when it comes to politics and is surely not want anyone wants) or do we simply accept that our 'great democracy' is a sham and not much better than the bogus democracies in countries like Russia?

I'm afraid that following the 'will of the people' being acted on in 2016 and 2019, I've decided that 'the people' get exactly what they deserve, and exhausted by the level of idiocy, have simply taken on the role of bemused bystander. It's down to my kids now.

I am aware that millions of innocents have suffered and not got what they deserve and they have my deepest sympathies. Maybe next time people will be motivated enough to actually get out and vote to stop it, but I'm not holding my breath. Sorry

 

[MJsGhost]

I agree but it poses an interesting question: If there is a desire of the people (remembering democracy literally means 'people rule') for constitutional change but the constitution has created a monopoly of power for only two parties that have an overriding self interest to prevent change, how can the will of the people ever be implemented? Demonstrations are possible of course, but again it is in the interests of the ruling party (Lab or Cons) to ignore them and they can.
Do we turn to the King (which opens up another set of constitutional issues), civil unrest (thankfully not in the British DNA when it comes to politics and is surely not want anyone wants) or do we simply accept that our 'great democracy' is a sham and not much better than the bogus democracies in countries like Russia?

That's where a one issue party pops up, gains traction and then one of the two adopt that policy to win their support.

Hopefully the outcome would be more defined and more honestly debated beforehand to avoid a Brexit scenario

 

[Stat Brother]

A perfectly normal human being

 

[tedebear]

I'm afraid that following the 'will of the people' being acted on in 2016 and 2019, I've decided that 'the people' get exactly what they deserve, and exhausted by the level of idiocy, have simply taken on the role of bemused bystander. It's down to my kids now.

I am aware that millions of innocents have suffered and not got what they deserve and they have my deepest sympathies. Maybe next time people will be motivated enough to actually get out and vote to stop it, but I'm not holding my breath. Sorry

Agree, they absolutely get what they deserve. I spend my time wondering when we will hit rock bottom for people to change their voting ways....I continue to be astounded about this, both here and in the USA. Its just incredible how people park certain things including morals and bare faced facts at the polling booth door and vote Tory "as I can't vote anything else"....I'm sure there are studies into this, but it just astounds me. I get the science behind why people vote for Trump - dictators have clear methods to gain these votes (although it still astounds me people dont see through it), but the Tory party are not dictators, and so it continues to befuddle me. In the Wellingborough by election 7k people still voted Tory, the Tory candidate who is the partner to the disgraced outgoing MP. My brain does not compute...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[Gwylan]

I’m not so sure he has a positive approval rating. She’s definitely a proven liar.

That wasn't my opinion: there was a survey two weeks ago looking at possible Conservative leaders (among the electorate, not members) and she was the only senior Tory with a positive rating. It was only 2% but it was lot better than Suella Braverman's minus 40.

 

[WATFORD zero]

That wasn't my opinion: there was a survey two weeks ago looking at possible Conservative leaders (among the electorate, not members) and she was the only senior Tory with a positive rating. It was only 2% but it was lot better than Suella Braverman's minus 40.

I really wish those were the ratings from within the party, because it would mean that the members are giving negative ratings and then voting for those same people to run the country. I see not, as it really isn't possible to reach that lower level of gross stupidity........


... is it ?

 

[A1X]

Elect Penny Mordaunt as leader - the one that Labour fear and the only Tory with a positive approval rating among voters. I'm not sure she'd win but would greatly reduce the Labour majority and possible lead to a hung parliament.

Realistically this is the only chance the Tories have of at least stemming the bleeding, the problem is the rank and file membership are so utterly radicalised that I don’t think she’d have a cat-in-hell’s chance of winning a leadership contest over the likes of Badenoch, Braverman or anyone else on the nutter wing.

MPs could impose her as leader again (as they did with Sunak), but I don’t think they have the unity in Westminster to do it anymore, and there’d be revolt in the local HQs. And even then you’d need to convince her to do it when the likelihood is it might only be for a few months before electoral defeat and subsequent carnage within the party.

As said previously, the Tories won’t be saved until they have their “Neil Kinnock vs Militant” moment where a moderate leader has the courage to stand up to the nutters and take them down, however painful it might be. Could she do that? Maybe. But they’re at least five years (and two electoral thumpings) away from that.