[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Blue Valkyrie]

Absolutely typical Starmer type response.

Whataboutery, should have done this, what about that?

The way to proceed is to deal with what you've got, not moan about what is gone.

Add this type of approach to half Labour's fans being pro Corbyn and the other pro Starmer, it is no surprise of the division.

We can all complain about or predicament and say 'Should have done this, what about that', or we can simply try to move forward in difficult times.

I know what I'm going to try.

Get a "can do" attitude ? Lol.

 

[strings]

Absolutely typical Starmer type response.

Whataboutery, should have done this, what about that?

The way to proceed is to deal with what you've got, not moan about what is gone.

Add this type of approach to half Labour's fans being pro Corbyn and the other pro Starmer, it is no surprise of the division.

We can all complain about or predicament and say 'Should have done this, what about that', or we can simply try to move forward in difficult times.

I know what I'm going to try.

Whilst I agree - both sides do this. David Cameron used to get the 'there is no money' letter of our his pocket at every opportunity.

 

[Lever]

Get a "can do" attitude ? Lol.

...and that is the person who claims to eschew personality politics in favour of policies... I think the comments either betray a complete lack of self awareness or a clumsy attempt to deceive....

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I heard Rasb this morning on the radio.

He was absolutely floundering.

It was almost cruel.

It doesn't surprise me when you consider his ineptitude when Afghanistan fell and his excuse was the sea was closed.

 

[pb21]

[tweet]1537334800217956353[/tweet]

They do it on purpose, it happens all the time and it stinks.

You go on and say you don't know the details, so cant comment, blah blah ****ing blah, but then downplay the issue in question in terms of generalities and hypotheticals, which they never normally do when they are being asked such questions.

 

[pb21]

I heard Rasb this morning on the radio.

He was absolutely floundering.

It was almost cruel.

He was getting quite annoyed with the questions wasn't he, and being picked up on not actually answering hem how he wanted to. He comes across as very spiteful and thoroughly unlikable.

 

[Bry Nylon]

You will find out more about the policies when it gets nearer to a general election. At the moment, I long for a 'boring' Prime Minister instead of one that loves drama and chaos every day.

I'm more than happy to wait for the detailed policies - which are generally the expression of the "How?" I think what I am missing is the "What?" - the over-arching narrative that describes the country and society Labour aspire to create. This period in opposition needs to be spent applying the broad brush strokes of what an alternative Britain could look like; the fine detail, documented in policies, can come later. But it seems non-partisan voters like myself are feeling a bit lost tbh - a sense borne out by the recent local election results where the Tories got pounded yet Labour failed to gain any real traction. If this wasn't a warning sign for them that they are failing to cut through then it should be. A Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson is obviously utterly toxic but campaigning on a ticket of "not being Boris Johnson" isn't going to be enough.

New Labour succeeded because they had a bright, engaging, charismatic leader and a compelling message that offered hope and aspiration - all underpinned by a massively effective communications strategy that in the end proved irresistible. Starmer I can live with, but at present I fail to see any compelling vision.

Anyway, as [MENTION=22135]rippleman[/MENTION] says above, this thread is about the current Tory meltdown, but I fear there is a complacency among committed Labour supporters that the current leadership is doing enough to win over floating / potential voters. I sense at the moment that they are not.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm more than happy to wait for the detailed policies - which are generally the expression of the "How?" I think what I am missing is the "What?" - the over-aching narrative of the country and society Labour aspire to create. This period in opposition needs to be spent applying the broad brush strokes of what an alternative Britain could look like - as you say, the fine detail documented in policies can come later. But it seems non-partisan voters like myself are feeling a bit lost tbh - a sense borne out by the recent local election results where the Tories got pounded yet Labour failed to gain any real traction. If this wasn't a warning sign for them that they are failing to cut through then it should be. A Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson is obviously utterly toxic but campaigning on a ticket of "not being Boris Johnson" isn't going to be enough.

New Labour succeeded because they had a bright, engaging, charismatic leader and a compelling message that offered hope and aspiration - all underpinned by a massively effective communications strategy that in the end proved irresistible. Starmer I can live with, but at present I fail to see any compelling vision.

Anyway, as [MENTION=22135]rippleman[/MENTION] says above, this thread is about the current Tory meltdown, but I fear there is a complacency among committed Labour support that the current leadership is doing enough to win over floating / potential voters. I sense at the moment that they are not.

I agree with every word and am far from complacent.

As a lefty I always expected Mr Tony to drift left once he'd established his credentials as a sound PM, and gained the nation's trust, but he never did.

So yes we await the Starmer vision.

That said....we have 3 more years of fatty Johnson and his bouncy castle cabinet of popinjays and lickspittals. Three years for Johnson to seize on any labour proposal and explain, humorously, how Captain Hindsight's half-baked proposals would bankrup the country and drag us back into the 1970s.

No, on second thoughts, Starmer may be better off saving his big reveal for election year.

And yet...I can easily imagine Jognson calling a snap election early in that year if Starmer is still holding off his reveal.

So all the while people continue to regard Johnson as their lad, the kiddy, and the man who saved us from the EU and Covid, Starmer is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Perhaps the best he can do is not play the brinkmanship game at all. Which seems to be what he's doing now.

But I agree with your gut points. I'm a labour man and you aren't so I'm less in need of a policy fillip. Still....a nice little policy fillip is always welcome...

 

[CHAPPERS]

Well Geidt didn’t mince his words in his resignation letter then.

This week, however, I was tasked to offer a view about the government’s intention to consider measures which risk a deliberate and purposeful breach of the ministerial code. This request has placed me in an impossible and odious position. My informal response on Monday was that you and any other minister should justify openly your position vis-à-vis the code in such circumstances. However, the idea that a prime minister might to any degree be in the business of deliberately breaching his own code is an affront. A deliberate breach, or even an intention to do so, would be to suspend the provisions of the code to suit a political end. This would make a mockery not only of respect for the code but licence the suspension of its provisions in governing the conduct of Her Majesty’s ministers. I can have no part in this.

 

[Eric the meek]

popinjays and lickspittals.

Have you been out drinking with George Galloway?

 

[pb21]

fatty Johnson and his bouncy castle cabinet of popinjays and lickspittals

[MENTION=35196]Is it PotG?[/MENTION]

These were also one hell of a band, 'til the bassist left.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm more than happy to wait for the detailed policies - which are generally the expression of the "How?" I think what I am missing is the "What?" - the over-arching narrative that describes the country and society Labour aspire to create. This period in opposition needs to be spent applying the broad brush strokes of what an alternative Britain could look like; the fine detail, documented in policies, can come later. But it seems non-partisan voters like myself are feeling a bit lost tbh - a sense borne out by the recent local election results where the Tories got pounded yet Labour failed to gain any real traction. If this wasn't a warning sign for them that they are failing to cut through then it should be. A Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson is obviously utterly toxic but campaigning on a ticket of "not being Boris Johnson" isn't going to be enough.

New Labour succeeded because they had a bright, engaging, charismatic leader and a compelling message that offered hope and aspiration - all underpinned by a massively effective communications strategy that in the end proved irresistible. Starmer I can live with, but at present I fail to see any compelling vision.

Anyway, as [MENTION=22135]rippleman[/MENTION] says above, this thread is about the current Tory meltdown, but I fear there is a complacency among committed Labour supporters that the current leadership is doing enough to win over floating / potential voters. I sense at the moment that they are not.

I personally think it is deliberate. I think that the electorate's appetite for radical change will be very different after this coming winter and more so by the time an election actually happens. And to turn around this disaster of a an economy is going to take significant change.

Sadly, I think there is still a lot of suffering for many people over the next couple of years before that happens

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm more than happy to wait for the detailed policies - which are generally the expression of the "How?" I think what I am missing is the "What?" - the over-arching narrative that describes the country and society Labour aspire to create. This period in opposition needs to be spent applying the broad brush strokes of what an alternative Britain could look like; the fine detail, documented in policies, can come later. But it seems non-partisan voters like myself are feeling a bit lost tbh - a sense borne out by the recent local election results where the Tories got pounded yet Labour failed to gain any real traction. If this wasn't a warning sign for them that they are failing to cut through then it should be. A Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson is obviously utterly toxic but campaigning on a ticket of "not being Boris Johnson" isn't going to be enough.

New Labour succeeded because they had a bright, engaging, charismatic leader and a compelling message that offered hope and aspiration - all underpinned by a massively effective communications strategy that in the end proved irresistible. Starmer I can live with, but at present I fail to see any compelling vision.

Anyway, as [MENTION=22135]rippleman[/MENTION] says above, this thread is about the current Tory meltdown, but I fear there is a complacency among committed Labour supporters that the current leadership is doing enough to win over floating / potential voters. I sense at the moment that they are not.

The whole thing just reminds me of school, where a vote for the class school council rep is playing out between the class clown, a compulsive liar being supported by all the selfish kids who seek to bathe in his popularity and egged on and voted for by the kids who need a lot of "special time". Meanwhile the nerds and swots, who will undoubtedly have some good ideas, but not perhaps ones the special kids necessarily understand, are the opposition. Their leader is the least charismatic nerd of all and his gang are largely trying to see how many books and desks are broken by the clown, how many times he stays back in the playground for illicit parties with pop and tuck and how much lunch money he'll steal before they say what they'll do about it.

Though the class clown is largely despised by teachers and the other classes at the school he's currently taking a shit on a desk and calling the leader of the nerds "Beer Korma" while thumbing his nose and no one seems to be able to do anything about it.

OFSTED are about to rate the place outstanding, based largely on the fact that the kids from the school in the ghetto that was bombed are queuing up to get in there and the nastiest girl in the clown's gang wants to send them straight back to a different ghetto when they do.

 

[nicko31]

Absolutely typical Starmer type response.

Whataboutery, should have done this, what about that?

The way to proceed is to deal with what you've got, not moan about what is gone.

Add this type of approach to half Labour's fans being pro Corbyn and the other pro Starmer, it is no surprise of the division.

We can all complain about or predicament and say 'Should have done this, what about that', or we can simply try to move forward in difficult times.

I know what I'm going to try.

Ten of billions up in smoke, economy tanking, GBP crashing...never mind mustn't grumble

Boris is doing his best, he nearly died of covid and personally delivered a world beating vaccination program those pesky Europeans tried to derail.

No one would have done better. Reckon if Starmer woz in charge we'd be burning £10B worth of PPE now...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm more than happy to wait for the detailed policies - which are generally the expression of the "How?" I think what I am missing is the "What?" - the over-arching narrative that describes the country and society Labour aspire to create. This period in opposition needs to be spent applying the broad brush strokes of what an alternative Britain could look like; the fine detail, documented in policies, can come later. But it seems non-partisan voters like myself are feeling a bit lost tbh - a sense borne out by the recent local election results where the Tories got pounded yet Labour failed to gain any real traction. If this wasn't a warning sign for them that they are failing to cut through then it should be. A Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson is obviously utterly toxic but campaigning on a ticket of "not being Boris Johnson" isn't going to be enough.

New Labour succeeded because they had a bright, engaging, charismatic leader and a compelling message that offered hope and aspiration - all underpinned by a massively effective communications strategy that in the end proved irresistible. Starmer I can live with, but at present I fail to see any compelling vision.

Anyway, as [MENTION=22135]rippleman[/MENTION] says above, this thread is about the current Tory meltdown, but I fear there is a complacency among committed Labour supporters that the current leadership is doing enough to win over floating / potential voters. I sense at the moment that they are not.

The Labour party conference will help. Last year the motion to support PR was defeated by a block vote from Len McCluskey's Unite union. He has now retired. This is one of the big problems I have with unions. I was a union member for many many years, but I was never balloted on political views, so how anyone could use the numbers of membership to defeat Labour policy is beyond me. I was balloted on strike action and did go on strike a couple of times.

Sorry, back on topic.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1537384623059107843[/tweet]

 

[Randy McNob]

so to all those (gaslit) who say / said it would be so much worse under Labour and / or Corbyn, presumably inflation would be closer to 20%, Petrol would 3 quid a litre and gas bills would be 1,000% higher?

So lets thank our lucky stars we have Boris + Co in charge, just think how worse it could be......

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Labour party conference will help. Last year the motion to support PR was defeated by a block vote from Len McCluskey's Unite union. He has now retired. This is one of the big problems I have with unions. I was a union member for many many years, but I was never balloted on political views, so how anyone could use the numbers of membership to defeat Labour policy is beyond me. I was balloted on strike action and did go on strike a couple of times.

Sorry, back on topic.

If I may join you derailment, I resigned from the UCU after being a member for 35 years, triggered by the local branch passing their one and only motion last year - to boycott Israel and any company with any links to Israel, then posting photos of their picket line, with a smiling Jeremy Corbyn, all of them gleeful and giving him surreptitious looks of love. Nauseating.

 

[Audax]

[tweet]1537384623059107843[/tweet]

For any other PM, that wouldn't be a letter - it would be a torpedo creating a nasty hole beneath the waterline and sinking the ship. Unfortunately, Boris just keeps floating back to the top like a turd that just won't flush away.

 

[Bry Nylon]

For any other PM, that wouldn't be a letter - it would be a torpedo creating a nasty hole beneath the waterline and sinking the ship. Unfortunately, Boris just keeps floating back to the top like a turd that just won't flush away.

Incredible, isn't it? I read Johnson's reply and effectively it just brushes it aside like none of it matters and appears to make coded references to Geidt's judgement being clouded by stress, ffs.