[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Johnson is a useful idiot. Every now and then that’s how politics rolls. Keep up.

I still find it hard to fathom how you remain comfortable with the useful idiot lying about how he could get Brexit done, when nobody can. Brexit isn't 'done'. Northern Ireland isn't settled. Johnson wants to rip up the deal with the EU because he knows it doesn't work.

One suspects that the EU are not as craven and venal as the fools who 'lead' us to leave without any plan, and won't just allow their relations with us to just bimble on.

 

[TomandJerry]

Popcorn at the ready, chaps!

https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/...signations-uk-politics-live-latesttop-of-blog

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[Neville's Breakfast]

I still find it hard to fathom how you remain comfortable with the useful idiot lying about how he could get Brexit done, when nobody can. Brexit isn't 'done'. Northern Ireland isn't settled. Johnson wants to rip up the deal with the EU because he knows it doesn't work.

One suspects that the EU are not as craven and venal as the fools who 'lead' us to leave without any plan, and won't just allow their relations with us to just bimble on.

Getting Brexit done means safeguarding our leaving at a time in 2019 when that was at risk. Shaping our non EU future willl continue just as shaping our membership continued for decades after the 1970s vote.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Johnson is a useful idiot. Every now and then that’s how politics rolls. Keep up.

I thought I was keeping up quite well

Yes you've told us how you campaigned for Labour many many years ago and then saw the light and have been Tory ever since you became older and more mature

Another top post from you. I was a member of the Labour Party and the Young Socialists in the 1980s. Attended a conference of the YS at the Brighton Centre in around ‘84. Spent a lot of time leafleting and talking to people on doorsteps at election time.

But I agree completely that there was a an awful lot of idiocy about in Dec 2020

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just watched PMQs again. Zahawi sitting there nodding in agreement with Johnson. Zahawi, at least, has excluded himself as a future leader. Raab sitting there, face of thunder. He's ****ed too. Too late to resign. And mad Nad, next to Zahawi. Mouthing obscenities at SKS. Charge of the Lightweight Brigade. Zahawi sharpening his pen knife at the same time he sat nodding in support of Johnson. How completely embarrassing. What a shower.

Javid again, though - integrity, regret.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I thought I was keeping up quite well





But I agree completely that there was a an awful lot of idiocy about in Dec 2020

That doesn’t even mean anything. What exactly was wrong with my factual post from December 2020 that you have checked your files for ? You are not keeping up with the reasons many people voted for Johnson in 2019. The BBC are currently talking about exactly this if you are still not sure. I was entitled to vote for whichever reason I chose just as you were.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Getting Brexit done means safeguarding our leaving at a time in 2019 when that was at risk. Shaping our non EU future willl continue just as shaping our membership continued for decades after the 1970s vote.

OK, I think I understand your position. We simply had to leave the EU or all was finished. If you are a battered wife it is better to just leave, even if it means time in a shelter, and a painful legal battle over the kids and the house. You simply have to leave, regardless of any hardships and struggle that will certainly arise.

The problem with the analogy, though, is that you think the UK in the EU was like a battered wife, whereas I consider we were in an interesting and respectful relationship, with its inevitable ups and downs. A midnight flounce wearing nothing but a nightie under a duffle coat, with a pocket of loose change and no idea what tomorrow may bring was not remotely justifiable.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1544729197121359875[/tweet]

He loves to brag, let’s see him brag about that one

 

[Pevenseagull]

Why is Penny Mordant so popular in the betting for the next leader?


All I can find about her is that she was named after a warship.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Just watched PMQs again. Zahawi sitting there nodding in agreement with Johnson. Zahawi, at least, has excluded himself as a future leader. Raab sitting there, face of thunder. He's ****ed too. Too late to resign. And mad Nad, next to Zahawi. Mouthing obscenities at SKS. Charge of the Lightweight Brigade. Zahawi sharpening his pen knife at the same time he sat nodding in support of Johnson. How completely embarrassing. What a shower.

Javid again, though - integrity, regret.

I think you may be forgetting that Javid served under Johnson before and resigned over Johnson and Cummings wanting to control all SPADS. He resigned then and showed integrity

Having known what Johnson was like first hand, coming back to further his career and then resigning again, not so much.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

OK, I think I understand your position. We simply had to leave the EU or all was finished. If you are a battered wife it is better to just leave, even if it means time in a shelter, and a painful legal battle over the kids and the house. You simply have to leave, regardless of any hardships and struggle that will certainly arise.

The problem with the analogy, though, is that you think the UK in the EU was like a battered wife, whereas I consider we were in an interesting and respectful relationship, with its inevitable ups and downs. A midnight flounce wearing nothing but a nightie under a duffle coat, with a pocket of loose change and no idea what tomorrow may bring was not remotely justifiable.

No, I do not agree with your analogy. I did not think we had to leave the EU or all was finished. There are arguments for and against membership and unlike many I do not think we are all doomed if we don’t choose the one true path. It is simply an issue that I have debated a lot and on which I have formed a view. I don’t feel the need to keep justifying it but do choose to explain my voting intentions on this thread.

 

[TomandJerry]

It sounds like the No 10 housekeeping staff have a tricky job tonight. According to the Times’ Steven Swinford, there are now two contingents of cabinet ministers in the building to see Boris Johnson – loyalists who want him to stay and rebels who want him out. They are gathering in different parts of the building.

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[KZNSeagull]

Why is Penny Mordant so popular in the betting for the next leader?


All I can find about her is that she was named after a warship.

And she had to say the word "cock" in a Parliamentary speech as a forfeit for misdemeanours during naval reserve training. She said it five times in a speech about poultry welfare.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think you may be forgetting that Javid served under Johnson before and resigned over Johnson and Cummings wanting to control all SPADS. He resigned then and showed integrity

Having known what Johnson was like first hand, coming back to further his career and then resigning again, not so much.

In my game I have found myself having to suck up some shit in order to stay inside the tent where I can make a difference. As a consequence I have been able to (well no details, but the impact of my influence is recognised in my field). Right now my 'leader' is, I am convinced, dishonest. Should I quit? Luckily I don't need to because her time as leader is up this year. I will then get a chance to build a new relationship with her successor. There is far more good that I can do inside the tent, even though the outgoing leader has lied repeatedly to me. I suspect Javid feels the same. Plus of course there is a vanity issue and a reluctance to quit.

Johnson was elected as tory leader, then as PM. It should take a great deal for loyal colleagues and staff to rebel, and what we are seeing now is, indeed, a great deal.

 

[dolphins]

Think the resignometer is up to 38 now...

 

[TomandJerry]

In the Commons earlier Conor McGinn, a shadow Cabinet Office minister, used a point of order to say he understood the government had adjourned or “effectively cancelled” committee hearings organised for tomorrow to consider legislation before parliament as they are “unable to provide ministers”. He said:

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[Kalimantan Gull]

Johnson called a snap election the last time Parliament tried to block the will of the people. He won a huge majority and might believe he can do it again if Parliament stand in the way of the British people’s will that was exercised two years ago.

I’d be shocked if he resigned. He is more likely to sack the 4 cabinet conspirators.

Him calling an election won't make any difference to his leadership of the Tory party, they'll still kick him out, he won't fight the election as their leader

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No, I do not agree with your analogy. I did not think we had to leave the EU or all was finished. There are arguments for and against membership and unlike many I do not think we are all doomed if we don’t choose the one true path. It is simply an issue that I have debated a lot and on which I have formed a view. I don’t feel the need to keep justifying it but do choose to explain my voting intentions on this thread.

No, again, I apologise. I don't wish to hold you to account. All I will say is that, to me, leaving the EU was a monumental change, and it would need to have monumentally positive consequences, tangible and predicatble, to justify the risk.

A good mate of mine, university educated, well off, played poker once with The Lizard, voted leave for good reasons, but now regrets it on the grounds that nothing tangibly good has been obtained, and some disadvantages have arisen. He was mainly against 'red tape' and finds that his red tape has increased since we left.

I suppose the pivotal issue is that if you feel that it hardly matters either way whether we stay or leave, what is the motivation to vote leave? It all seems....somewhat quixotic.

Oh well, never mind. Take care of yourself. Chat again soon

 

[lawros left foot]

Is anyone else getting ‘Downfall’ vibes?


Johnson as Hitler, completely deluded, Mad Nads as Goebbels Missus, and various Senior officials with nowhere else to go.


BrunoGanz would struggle to play Johnson though, he’s not that fat.

 

[WATFORD zero]

That doesn’t even mean anything. What exactly was wrong with my factual post from December 2020 that you have checked your files for ? You are not keeping up with the reasons many people voted for Johnson in 2019. The BBC are currently talking about exactly this if you are still not sure. I was entitled to vote for whichever reason I chose just as you were.

Of course you are entitled to vote for whatever reason you choose. But each time you come on NSC and then tell us what a good idea it was to do that (the only ones I pick up on are why you voted for Brexit or Johnson), I will point out a simple factual reason why it wasn't and ask you for a response as to why you think it was a good idea ? At that point you will then refuse to discuss it, give some excuse that you don't understand it, or often refuse to post any further.

And we go round and round this every few months, always the same, always the same result, and I really can't understand why you keep instigating it

Do keep up