[Politics] Tonight,s EU vote and the margin of defeat ?

[Sussex Nomad]

If there is a majority for Remain in a second referendum, then it is quite simply IMPOSSIBLE to argue that that is undemocratic. And if there is a majority for Leave in a second referendum, the issue is put to bed forever. Its win-win

So the first referendum majority was undemocratic? And if those that want to remain get their way second time around that means it is democratic and it should be left there? I wish I lived in your universe, pink fluffy clouds.

 

[Triggaaar]

Would it require a vote of no confidence as well as the brexit vote to bring about a GE or would a resounding defeat automatically mean no confidence so a GE?

There's no automatic GE.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As a 'leaver', I am more than ever sure that another vote will occur.

I feel that it will be a major error to do so, and the effects will ripple for many. many years.

Not speaking personally, but such a kick in the nuts for democracy will not, I fear, be taken lightly.

The fact you lot are denying generations myriad freedoms and benefits which you freely have/had available to you will not be taken lightly either. Nothing personal, but you’re selfish....and I never have, or will, like selfish people.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The fact you lot are denying generations myriad freedoms and benefits which you freely have/had available to you will not be taken lightly either. You’re selfish....and I never have, or will, like selfi.and I never have, or will, like sh people.

Gutted, nice down to earth bloke like you too. I'm sure we'd have gelled so well.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The fact you lot are denying generations myriad freedoms and benefits which you freely have/had available to you will not be taken lightly either. Nothing personal, but you’re selfish....and I never have, or will, like selfish people.

I was under the impression a vote is for yourself and your beliefs? I wasn't aware my vote is actually not mine. And there was I thinking I lived in a democracy. How silly of me.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

On the Brexit thread, you said:

You said there'd be a mutually beneficial deal - there is.
You said only The Tories could deliver Brexit - they have.
You said you conceded there'd be concessions from the red lines as its a negotiation - there are.
You admitted it wouldn't be perfect, as nobody who voted leave thought it would be, but the democratic will of the majority must be enacted and if we're worse off than the status quo, so be it - we are.

Not only were you right, you won remember - get over it.

I said I favoured a mutually beneficial trade deal as a preferred outcome

I said the Tories were best placed to deliver Brexit as they had the most pro Brexit MP's

I expected some give and take on the margins but red lines are red lines

Correct I didn't expect it to be perfect but I don't speak for all leavers and yes the democratic will of the majority must be enacted.

And what did I say about a bad deal?

 

[Questions]

157 as the snooker is in full swing.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

So the first referendum majority was undemocratic? And if those that want to remain get their way second time around that means it is democratic and it should be left there? I wish I lived in your universe, pink fluffy clouds.

The first referendum majority was democratic, of course it was. But the winners still have to implement what was promised, and if they don't we get to vote a second time and can change our minds IF WE CHOOSE.

Just like in a general election, if one party promises, I don't know, say an extra £300 million a week for the NHS, and win the election and then fail to do that, we get to have another election and change our minds about who we want in power.


Seriously, some of you leavers take it so black and white that Leave means Leave, without appreciating that people voted to leave on all sorts of nuances, many of which are not being delivered, will never be delivered, and may be impossible to deliver. If whatever I vote for doesn't get delivered, I absolutely have the right to vote differently next time


But regardless, the government are voting today on a bill that would QUITE LITERALLY result in Brexit. And they have the votes to do so. And there's nothing I or any other remainer can do about it. And yet the hard-core Brexiteers are going to vote it down. Couldn't make it up...


Once we're beyond that point then, yes, the first referendum has happened, but since then we've had a Tory leadership election, a general election, a vote in parliament on leaving the EU ...... all of these were opportunities for Leavers to take control of the process, and in every case they were weakened

... at what point does an old vote get superseded by new votes?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The first referendum majority was democratic, of course it was. But the winners still have to implement what was promised, and if they don't we get to vote a second time and can change our minds IF WE CHOOSE.

Just like in a general election, if one party promises, I don't know, say an extra £300 million a week for the NHS, and win the election and then fail to do that, we get to have another election and change our minds about who we want in power.


Seriously, some of you leavers take it so black and white that Leave means Leave, without appreciating that people voted to leave on all sorts of nuances, many of which are not being delivered, will never be delivered, and may be impossible to deliver. If whatever I vote for doesn't get delivered, I absolutely have the right to vote differently next time


But regardless, the government are voting today on a bill that would QUITE LITERALLY result in Brexit. And they have the votes to do so. And there's nothing I or any other remainer can do about it. And yet the hard-core Brexiteers are going to vote it down. Couldn't make it up...


Once we're beyond that point then, yes, the first referendum has happened, but since then we've had a Tory leadership election, a general election, a vote in parliament on leaving the EU ...... all of these were opportunities for Leavers to take control of the process, and in every case they were weakened

... at what point does an old vote get superseded by new votes?

Who said I was a leaver? Not once have I said it on this thread. I just despair about democracy within the Palace of Westminster, and seeing some comments here, including yours, gives me no reason to believe it is confined to the House of Commons. They just said 75% of Tory seats and 61% of Labour seats voted to leave, so, that being the case, our representatives should vote according to their constituents and not according to them. If they don't they are not following democracy, which makes it all a total farce.

 

[n1 gull]

The fact you lot are denying generations myriad freedoms and benefits which you freely have/had available to you will not be taken lightly either. Nothing personal, but you’re selfish....and I never have, or will, like selfish people.

sanctimonious people on the other hand..

 

[BensGrandad]

I see no good reason to have a 2nd vote. It reminds me of my childhood when it was a straight toss of a coin then best of 3 then of 5 etc until you got the answer you wanted initially.

 

[Questions]

157 as the snooker is in full swing.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I see no good reason to have a 2nd vote. It reminds me of my childhood when it was a straight toss of a coin then best of 3 then of 5 etc until you got the answer you wanted initially.

Which is exactly correct. Another worrying possibility of a second referendum being won by remainers is there will, without a shadow of a doubt, be civil unrest from those that feel their first vote has now been ignored by an undemocratic process.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Who said I was a leaver? Not once have I said it on this thread. I just despair about democracy within the Palace of Westminster, and seeing some comments here, including yours, gives me no reason to believe it is confined to the House of Commons. They just said 75% of Tory seats and 61% of Labour seats voted to leave, so, that being the case, our representatives should vote according to their constituents and not according to them. If they don't they are not following democracy, which makes it all a total farce.

If you're not a Leaver then I'm shocked, absolutely shocked !! !!

Democracy is not perfect and sometimes decisions are made by the majority that are just wrong. Democracy, more than anything, should be there to protect the minority from decisions made by the majority that will harm them. Likewise there is a point to electing representatives who are actually aware of the consequences of decisions and govern accordingly. If we're just going to be run by some kind of pitchfork-wielding mob we're back in the dark ages

This is an instance where I am truly and honestly certain that the wrong decision has been made which will have far-reaching negative consequences, and therefore I have no concerns in wanting to see it overturned - but even so, I am calling not to ignore the referendum but to ratify the referendum by another majority vote.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

If you're not a Leaver then I'm shocked, absolutely shocked !! !!

Democracy is not perfect and sometimes decisions are made by the majority that are just wrong.

I may not have voted, it makes no difference.

I think you'd enjoy living in Russia or China if the democratic process doesn't work for you if you lose a vote.

Brighton lost Saturday, can we replay it because I wasn't happy with the result.

 

[BensGrandad]

Which is exactly correct. Another worrying possibility of a second referendum being won by remainers is there will, without a shadow of a doubt, be civil unrest from those that feel their first vote has now been ignored by an undemocratic process.

And demand a 3rd vote. What time will the result be known?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

And demand a 3rd vote.

Even May, a remainer and PM of this country, understands that the will of the people was decided upon in the referendum, it's what upstanding people for democracy do.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I may not have voted, it makes no difference.

I think you'd enjoy living in Russia or China if the democratic process doesn't work for you if you lose a vote.

Brighton lost Saturday, can we replay it because I wasn't happy with the result.

Did you vote for the result? 27,000 Brighton fans v 3000 Liverpool fans so who voted for Liverpool?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Good isn't it

Ignoring and subverting a democratic result is good?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Even May, a remainer and PM of this country, understands that the will of the people was decided upon in the referendum, it's what upstanding people for democracy do.

Even Corbyn understands this .. such a shame there are so many people who have contempt for UK democratic traditions of respecting and enacting democratic results.