[Politics] Tonight,s EU vote and the margin of defeat ?

[ManOfSussex]

May has completely run down the clock, wasted most of 2018, and wasted time after A50 was triggered. Worst PM ever..

The question is whether the EU would extend A50 without a GE or People's vote on table, can see some members of the EU 27 not wanting to give Britain more time to try and get a better deal that lets face it doesn't exist.

Hard choices ahead...

If the worse happens and there are no alternatives, then this Brexit Withdrawal Agreement it is then. Brexit means Brexit after all and this is Brexit.

 

[Notters]

Most I know want no deal. They didn't vote for a deal, they voted to leave.

I'll take your word for it as I don't know any.

 

[Notters]

Please remind me, what is a 'People's vote'?

A legally binding referendum, with the three clear available options on the table:

No Deal
Theresa's Deal
Remain

And for those saying remain shouldn't be there, I'd argue that it's a lot closer to Theresa's deal than no deal, and that's where AV comes in.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

A legally binding referendum, with the three clear available options on the table:

No Deal
Theresa's Deal
Remain

And for those saying remain shouldn't be there, I'd argue that it's a lot closer to Theresa's deal than no deal, and that's where AV comes in.

A referendum then, as you point out. Why not call it a referendum then?

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

114

 

[Is it PotG?]

A legally binding referendum, with the three clear available options on the table:

No Deal
Theresa's Deal
Remain

And for those saying remain shouldn't be there, I'd argue that it's a lot closer to Theresa's deal than no deal, and that's where AV comes in.

My earlier form had Leave/Remain on it

Until the result of THAT referendum has been satisfied, another one is undemocratic.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Calling it a 'people's vote' is bull. A referendum is a people's vote, why dress up a referendum? I think people have to be seriously challenged not to understand that.

Nobody gives two shits what it is called. Who cares?

A referendum is a 'people's vote', yes.

A second (better informed) vote would be another.

If you think that the population still has an appetite for leaving, now that we all know a lot more about the consequences / impacts of doing so, then why are you so terrified of the prospect?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Regardless of who did/does the negotiating, they've got to be held to account. Now we all know May has proven to be totally incompetent and just look at the absolute dorks standing behind her (Gove, Grayling). I mean they really are absolute gimps I wouldn't trust to run a bath.

If Brexiteers had led the negotiations, we'd have got a deal that reflected a broad Brexit concensus. It would either have been acceptable to most of the electorate or it would have been as utterly gash as this deal with parliament able to throw it out. Sure, there would have been accusations of remainers subverting democracy, BUT it could have been picked apart and then it pointed out that this is the best a passionate pro-Brexit working group could manage. As it is, the accusation will always (understandably) be that the remainer PM has cobbled together a shit deal - either she's done a piss poor job or she's deliberately damaged it.

Move aside May you useless clown and let people with a passion for it ON ALL SIDES actually do the negotiating.



Look, I agree that a good Brexit deal is impossible. But the point is, let the people who believe in it either produce that deal we don't think is possible, or be hoisted by their own petard.

Completely agree on highlighted comments 'we' (Brexiteers) voted for it, 'we' should own it and be held responsible for making it a success unfortunately 'we' have not been the ones making the ultimate decisions. A Remain PM with a majority Remain cabinet leading a party with no majority in a Remain MP dominated parliament have led us to where we are today and although she initially talked a good Brexiteer game she soon diverged dramatically from the red lines/manifesto commitments she was elected on hence Brexiteer resignations from her cabinet.

 

[Is it PotG?]

If you think that the population still has an appetite for leaving, now that we all know a lot more about the consequences / impacts of doing so, then why are you so terrified of the prospect?

I think with all of the useful information given about no medicines for 2 years and a deathly shortage of oranges, who knows what gullible folks may vote?

 

[crodonilson]

175

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

The Remain, ignore/subvert the referendum result forces are on manoeuvres. Bercow didn't pick any amendment that may help the government reduce the size of the defeat and Benn knows his amendment could have passed making it more likely Brexiteer Mp's would reluctantly vote for May's deal so he withdrew it.

Size of defeat 150 ish

Good isn't it

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Calling it a 'people's vote' is bull. A referendum is a people's vote, why dress up a referendum? I think people have to be seriously challenged not to understand that.

True, but I also think people have to be seriously challenged not to realise that 'People's vote' is the moniker that's been given to a potential second referendum

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Nobody gives two shits what it is called. Who cares?

A referendum is a 'people's vote', yes.

A second (better informed) vote would be another.

If you think that the population still has an appetite for leaving, now that we all know a lot more about the consequences / impacts of doing so, then why are you so terrified of the prospect?

If nobody gives two shits as you so eloquently put it, why am I asking and quoting this constant use of 'people's vote'?

I missed the 'terrified' bit.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Completely agree on highlighted comments 'we' (Brexiteers) voted for it, 'we' should own it and be held responsible for making it a success unfortunately 'we' have not been the ones making the ultimate decisions. A Remain PM with a majority Remain cabinet leading a party with no majority in a Remain MP dominated parliament have led us to where we are today and although she initially talked a good Brexiteer game she soon diverged dramatically from the red lines/manifesto commitments she was elected on hence Brexiteer resignations from her cabinet.

On the Brexit thread, you said:

You said there'd be a mutually beneficial deal - there is.
You said only The Tories could deliver Brexit - they have.
You said you conceded there'd be concessions from the red lines as its a negotiation - there are.
You admitted it wouldn't be perfect, as nobody who voted leave thought it would be, but the democratic will of the majority must be enacted and if we're worse off than the status quo, so be it - we are.

Not only were you right, you won remember - get over it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

As a 'leaver', I am more than ever sure that another vote will occur.

I feel that it will be a major error to do so, and the effects will ripple for many. many years.

Not speaking personally, but such a kick in the nuts for democracy will not, I fear, be taken lightly.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

True, but I also think people have to be seriously challenged not to realise that 'People's vote' is the moniker that's been given to a potential second referendum

So call it a second referendum and stop the spin!!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

As a 'leaver', I am more than ever sure that another vote will occur.

I feel that it will be a major error to do so, and the effects will ripple for many. many years.

Not speaking personally, but such a kick in the nuts for democracy will not, I fear, be taken lightly.

I wouldn't worry about it. Those of us who are pro-EU have had to put up with the bullshit from the Eurosceptics for decades. It will just continue, but so what.

If there is a majority for Remain in a second referendum, then it is quite simply IMPOSSIBLE to argue that that is undemocratic. And if there is a majority for Leave in a second referendum, the issue is put to bed forever. Its win-win

 

[Nixonator]

I'll take your word for it as I don't know any.

There's lots of them. It's a mistake to think they don't exist or that they're either a) stupid b) old (or dead) or c) have changed their mind - as the media propogates.

There's been some pretty outrageous stuff coming out of the remain camp over the last couple of years that, as a remain voter myself, has been utterly embarassing. I think it will only serve to tip the balance the other way, again.

Particularly when they give clueless ****tards platforms to suggest (just recently) that old people shouldn't be able to vote. It's enough to rile a saint.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

So call it a second referendum and stop the spin!!

If we can agree to have a second referendum, I'll call it whatever you like sweetie

 

[Is it PotG?]

I wouldn't worry about it. Those of us who are pro-EU have had to put up with the bullshit from the Eurosceptics for decades. It will just continue, but so what.

If there is a majority for Remain in a second referendum, then it is quite simply IMPOSSIBLE to argue that that is undemocratic. And if there is a majority for Leave in a second referendum, the issue is put to bed forever. Its win-win

If you say so.