Tonight - More4, The God Delusion

[The Merry Prankster]

Maybe God needs to be experienced (not intellectualised) and in order to do that one needs to do certain things (seek him as they say). If you have never sought God how can you say he doesn't exist? "I am not going to waste time seeking him because he doesn't exist" or "you will only know if he exists if you seek him" Likewise Sully's uncertainty about the soul, maybe you need to have lost it before you know you had it.

Bit of a conundrum.

One thing is for sure - I distrust absolute certainty which ever side it comes from.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You don't really think this do you? Really?

Actually I did.

This thread contains more atheists opinions than religious peoples.

 

[Acker79]

But, like Acker (?) said, Communisum and Fasisum, athiest organisations killed 100 million last century.

Not exactly what I said. I mentioned that many death are about perspective. Hitler was an occultist who is often included as an atheist communist.

As such, if you are of faith, you will likely focus on his lack of religion and say his murders count as atheist/communist murders.
If you are against religion, you will look at how Hitler used religion to create a target, Hitler didn't carry out the murders of those 6million people himself, his supporters bought into the religious-based propaganda and were willing to carry out his orders.

Were those 6 million murders in the hoocaust atheist murders or religious murders? When people were murdered for being jewish it's hard to argue it wasn't religion, but when the main culprit behind it is an atheist how can you blame religion?

Atheists don't have to prove anything. We're just saying we don't believe. That's what make us atheists. The burden of proof is on those who say there definitely IS a god. Evidence, please.

It amazes me how some Christians think that faith is some kind of default setting, and atheists have opted out of it. The point is, we never opted in.

Makes me think of this quote:

"Calling me an atheist is like defining me as a man without a dragon tail, and then denying me my rights because I do not have a dragon tail!"
-Jeff Schweitzer

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Tyrone ... Why do atheists talk about these things? We live in a society where kids have to have faith-based assemblies at school (unless they opt out), religious leaders are part of the legislature by right, there are laws against offending people who choose to call themselves religious ... we're surrounded by religion. Those of us who find it all a bit illogical are bound to make observations about this state of affairs. I only get really annoyed by the casual indoctrination of my kids into the Christian faith by state schools. Personally I don't mind what anyone believes, unless it impinges on my family's freedoms. And sometimes it does, just a little bit.

So you are like me then perhaps.

A Classical Libertarian.

I dont believe any kind of religion should be forced upon anyone.

But on the other hand it shouldn't be shut out of all processes through ostrecising its members.

My observations arent of people disagreeing with a policy or idea which may have come from someone religious.

It's of them attacking the religion and the faith itself.

The two are separate entities imo.

 

[Little Piggy]

The greatest irony is that from my experience the people who talk most about God aren't those who believe in him. It's those that don't who seem more zealous about the whole thing.

Which begs the question, why would anyone who didnt believe in something spend so much time talking about it?

In my experience over here in IRELAND is truly saddening. If I stand any chance of my child being admitted to a decent school (and by decent I don't mean that in a snobby private kind of way, I mean just a normal local school) they will have to be baptized as a Catholic. Its a tough choice to be forced into, as personally I am fairly miffed that my parents had me christened so it is hypocritical of me to consider making decisions like that on behalf of my own child.

So personally, THATS why I spend so much time talking about it. f*** religions and their meddling in society. f*** them right in the ear.

 

[beorhthelm]

Conversely we have the Muslims to thank for introducing the Arabic numerical system to replace the cumbersome and impractical roman system.

no we have the Arabs to thank for the Arabic numerals. they and their mathematics, astonomy and other learning predate Islam.

Imagine if science was never impeded in its progress. Hypothetically you could have had Napoleon dropping atom bombs on Europe.

Given the times and the attitudes to war then the decision to explode one would have taken very little discussion nor thought in regards to the consequences of setting it off.

if? if the enlightenment had occured years earlier their would probably be no Napoleon. we might have all develped into a as yet unknown peacful global society 200 years ago without passing through slavery or world wars if science and philosophy had free reign. we can never know, so lets not play with ifs.

The only thing that's capable of truly wiping out the planet in one foul swoop was created by science, not religion.

so we can agree that "God" is not all powerfull after all then.

 

[daveinprague]

Well, I think that all those that believe in this deity, learned of him from what and where? A religion and scriptures written by men.
Good on you if you believe that sort of thing, but its nothing i can go along with really. I certainly wont change any religious minds im sure, and my views certainly wont change. Peace and love

 

[Stoo82]

I could never do the whole religion thing. But I do belieive in 'a God'.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

In my experience over here in IRELAND is truly saddening. If I stand any chance of my child being admitted to a decent school (and by decent I don't mean that in a snobby private kind of way, I mean just a normal local school) they will have to be baptized as a Catholic. Its a tough choice to be forced into, as personally I am fairly miffed that my parents had me christened so it is hypocritical of me to consider making decisions like that on behalf of my own child.

So personally, THATS why I spend so much time talking about it. f*** religions and their meddling in society. f*** them right in the ear.

Move to Sweden then.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Well, I think that all those that believe in this deity, learned of him from what and where? A religion and scriptures written by men.
Good on you if you believe that sort of thing, but its nothing i can go along with really.

Believing in a God isn't just about reading about it.

Ever experience dejavu?

Most of us have. Can we explain it? Nope.

Did we feel/sense it in our minds and consciousness, Yup.

Can it be measured scientifically? Not really.

Does it mean it doesnt exist then? Nope.


And that's how it is for religious people. You can sense it, you can feel a presence, but you can't necessarily see it or measure its presence.

But that doesnt mean its not real to you.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

no we have the Arabs to thank for the Arabic numerals. they and their mathematics, astonomy and other learning predate Islam.

We have the conquests by the Islamic Moors to thank for its spreading into Europe.

Math of the Moors :: squareCircleZ

if? if the enlightenment had occured years earlier their would probably be no Napoleon. we might have all develped into a as yet unknown peacful global society 200 years ago without passing through slavery or world wars if science and philosophy had free reign. we can never know, so lets not play with ifs.

We do know that wouldnt have happened. Mankind is warlike. Humanity for all its compassion is also very cruel and greedy.

No amount of science changes what humans are at their most basic level.

Just as no amount of religion can turn bad people into good people.

They are what they are.

so we can agree that "God" is not all powerfull after all then.

Ah but he is.

Because he created a being that had within its mind could either find a cure to save a billion lives, or with the flick of a switch destroy a billion lives.

That sounds pretty much all powerful to me.

 

[Scampi]

Move to Sweden then.

Is this comment for real?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Is this comment for real?

I you don't like the system you live under why wouldn't you consider moving?

Millions upon millions of people have undertaken such changes.

It's always an option.

You dont think a few of the Immigrants who call Britain home left because they thought the system they lived under didnt suit the way they wanted to live their lives.

The world is one big global village. There's something that suits everyones tastes.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because he created a being that had within its mind could either find a cure to save a billion lives, or with the flick of a switch destroy a billion lives.

That sounds pretty much all powerful to me.

a being that is also, according to you, inately warmongering, cruel and greedy. bit of a logic failure. funny how all bad things are due to mans weakness, all good things are in Gods plan. but God supposedly created man, so why did he do so with so many flaws? is it a lack of critical reasoning or blind faith that means you fail to see this contradiction.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Two points. If this program was called "The Allah Delusion" it would not have even got on telly.

Also, I don't believe in God. However, there have been more than ten but less than twenty times when I have cast my eyes upwards and prayed like a bastard for someone to get me out of the shitstorm I have found myself in. Amazing who finds God in a foxhole, innit?

 

[Stoo82]

Amazing who finds God in a foxhole, innit?

Just when you really need 'him'.

 

[8ace]

On now. Bead rattlers to start with.

 

[Acker79]

Two points. If this program was called "The Allah Delusion" it would not have even got on telly.

Maybe, but if it was 'the allah delusion' it would be perceived as an attack on a specific religion. Allah is a god, as is Vishnu, Eros, Poseidon etc.

This isn't "The Christian God Delusion" it is simply "The God Delusion".

 

[tedebear]

Too busy flipping between Dawn getting naked and Ugly Betty, you can never agree on religion or politics, due to the fact that the neurones fire in our brains in a different order in each of us....

 

[readingstockport]

dawkins needs to get a life

Dawkins is married to Lala Ward and has been for quite some time. He's an internationally published author and a professor of biology at one of the best universities in the world. He travels the world eloquently debating and putting deluded religious zealots in their place (see the youtube video where he completely humilates sakrani over islams stance on apostasy for an example).

And your life is more fulfilled than his in what respect exactly?

Pray tell me what you have done that remotely compares to his achievements?