This is even more proof that for visitors (maybe not so much for residents) the private car still has a crucial role to play, and transport planning in Brighton must recognise that. Public transport on its own can't cope.
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[Brighton] Thousands queuing for trains at Brighton station
- Thread starter H block
- Start date
theboybilly
Well-known member
As somebody who regularly commuted to Victoria on the first available train (the 03.50) I found that at least 75% of the time the train seemed to be replaced by a double-decker bus to Haywards Heath or Three Bridges. I used to get a warning when this was going to happen and instead rode up by motorbike to Gatwick and parked up for free. I don't think you will ever see all-night trains on the Brighton Mainline while it remains a double-tracked line south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction. (GTR can however usually run an all night service from Bedford into London because even with engineering works two lines remain open) So in this case it is not because of a lack of will that there can't be later trains but instead logistics get in the way. I can't quite believe I'm sat here defending that company
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
There used to be all-night trains before privatisation. I regularly got the 2am from Victoria.
I think that last Saturday, given that London Road was closed, a few thousand cars coming into Brighton would have caused gridlock. Let's imagine about third of the people coming into town came by car (100,000 if we take the lowest estimate) and at 1.6 people per car (the national average), we'd have had 62,000 cars coming into Brighton. Where on earth would they have all gone?
But speaking more generally, the council is under twin attacks here. On the one hand, you want more recognition of the role of the private car but, on the Bevy thread, we have Nick (and others) bemoaning the arrival of more cars coming into Brighton, as they're struggling to find parking spaces.
Not surprised - the entry/exit is way too narrow to cope with large crowds, let alone the platforms. It's closed on Brighton marathon day now too (much lower numbers than Pride I'd guess) - it used to be open in the early years, but after getting off there it would take and age to get out of the station, leading to overcrowding on the platform as more trains stopped.
Can't see any way in which Southern could have put on enough trains to meet the massive spike in demand at the end of the gig - although could have run trains through the night I guess
If they ran regular trains through the night it would surly make a difference as it will provide more capacity and stagger revellers arrival at the station. According to a website “The 12-carriage Thameslink trains will be able to cary up to 1,750 people” which would surely have a positive impact.
Having had enough of the sun on Saturday, and because I refuse to engage with the corporate behemoth that long ago took over the Pride in the park events, I got to Brighton station about 5pm. At that time the OB had already closed half of the station concourse (the half where the destination boards are of course!!). Hardly anybody about at that time.
The trains to Brighton in the morning were crammed (but no different to an evening game at the Amex) so what I'm struggling to understand is why the numbers of people wanting to get home after the days events had concluded appears to have come as such a shock and surprise to Southern and the police. Were they expecting most of the people who arrived by train to roller-blade home, or catch an ocean-going yacht? It couldn't have been that difficult to work out that there was going to be high demand at days end.
I have heard that some trains from Brighton were not full up when they departed. Anybody else heard that?
Just pisspoor planning......but nothing new there. I just feel sorry for all those who had a great day ruined by the incompetence of the rail company and police.
The trains to Brighton in the morning were crammed (but no different to an evening game at the Amex) so what I'm struggling to understand is why the numbers of people wanting to get home after the days events had concluded appears to have come as such a shock and surprise to Southern and the police. Were they expecting most of the people who arrived by train to roller-blade home, or catch an ocean-going yacht? It couldn't have been that difficult to work out that there was going to be high demand at days end.
I have heard that some trains from Brighton were not full up when they departed. Anybody else heard that?
Just pisspoor planning......but nothing new there. I just feel sorry for all those who had a great day ruined by the incompetence of the rail company and police.
Probably the same as rush hour trains ( any amex train ) where nob jockeys never move down to the centre of the carriage. Then appear deaf when being called out on it. Or occasionally you get someone giving it back how they can't move any further down ( whilst they view some old crap on their ipad)
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,321
Nah. It was nothing like that. As it happens I was monitoring the Live Departures board from Brighton - and my phone - on Saturday night from 11pm because I had a couple of friends (from Crawley) in the parade who I suspected might well need putting up as a Plan B in my spare room when the trains predictably up-phucked. In the end somebody gave them a lift home so all was good. However... while monitoring the Live Departures board, there was no evidence whatsoever of 15 extra trains laid on to take people home after the event. The board only showed the normal scheduled departures being delayed on a rolling basis before either leaving about 20-40 minutes late or being cancelled. Check the twitter feeds. There's photos on there of bemused revellers leaving Brighton in near deserted carriages. I dare say those inept ******** at Southern DID lay on 15 extra trains. But only to get people to Brighton, not to get them home again. Scumbags.
pearl
Well-known member
Would have been a nice touch if the 1000s that were stranded in town took some of their shite home..
I've spent a couple of weekends in Hastings recently, walked along the front early both Sunday mornings and the beach was pretty much litter free
Well the council could provide more on-street parking, but you're right, encouraging more cars into Brighton is at best a double-edged sword. I was thinking more of a more radical transport approach: pedestrianise the entire city centre (as nearly every other major UK town and city has done) and provide proper, purpose-built park ' n' ride sites for visitors on the edge of the city; and yes that probably means building on downland.
It won't happen, not least because of the National Park, but also because some people still cling to the view that driving cars is 'lazy' and 'selfish' (and PnR sites only encourage it) and that everybody can 'easily' use public transport to get around. As this weekend has proved that statement is total bollocks, but clinging to it (and blaming all the chaos on the railways) is a good excuse for not doing anything. Jeez, even on a normal summer weekend Brighton station is absolutely rammed; the Victorian system is struggling to cope. And it ain't going to get any better.
I'm not sure that P&R hasn't been adopted because car drivers are seen as lazy and selfish - we've had a Tory council for most of the past 30 years and they're generally all for private motorists. I suggest that we don't have a P&R because a) we had one at Withdean and it was hardly used and b) because it's hard to find a suitable site for one. The council have been looking for ages and have got nowhere.
You're right about pedestrianising the city centre though. One of the reasons that Withdean failed is that people could still drive in; P&R works in other places because it's impossible or very, very difficult to get to the centre by car. That step has to come first.
And building on Downland is not a minor difficulty either, there'd be all sorts of planning hurdles, although I'm not sure why Mill Road isn't used on a permanent basis.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,321
Reckon a hefty congestion charge would decimate the thoughtless one-car-occupant overnight. Or at least focus their minds and force them to conduct an informal cost/benefit analysis before just jumping in their car. Next time you're a pedestrian pinned to the pavement at traffic lights, look how many cars sweeping past have a single occupant. Most of them. If they want to clog our town, so be it. Let them pay through the nose for the privilege. On the public transport front, convoys of buses through the town centre aren't doing a whole lot better to de-clutter the town. Much as I hate to say it, B&H could do a whole lot worse than follow the Croydon Tramlink model. It's gotta come someday shirley?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The P&R at Withdean worked well, when it went straight into town, down Tongdean Lane and along the A23. The council then removed that saying the 27 bus worked. That literally does go all around the houses, so now few people bother.
Whilst I'm in agreement with you generally I'd be amazed if there would be so few per car. You'd get groups of friends travelling together with a designated driver. Say 3 people per car and that is still 33,333 cars so your point still stands.
GTR blaming the police................seems the additional trains weren't even used due to the station being locked up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-45083414
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-45083414
Apparently not.........according to GTR the trains weren't used because the police closed the station (and they don't put all the extra ones on the timetable).....wonder if it actually was, at least in part, down to inadequate marshalling of the crowds around the station.Can see days of finger-pointing from all the authorities involved, and exactly the same happening next year........
The Large One
Who's Next?
And in response, the Police have issued a thinly veiled criticism of Southern...
https://www.sussex.police.uk/news/b...onse-to-policing-at-brighton-railway-station/
The Large One
Who's Next?
From the BBC website, Angie Doll, in classic gibberish mode, contradicting herself within two sentences...
GTR spokeswoman Angie Doll said: "We had standby trains. We had an additional 15 trains available."
She said: "When we do events like this, we advertise the trains that are in the public timetable but we also have additional trains."
She said the rail company did not use its additional trains on Saturday.
GTR spokeswoman Angie Doll said: "We had standby trains. We had an additional 15 trains available."
She said: "When we do events like this, we advertise the trains that are in the public timetable but we also have additional trains."
She said the rail company did not use its additional trains on Saturday.
oneillco
Well-known member
- Feb 13, 2013
- 1,321
The situation at the station and with the trains was a disgrace and Govia Thameslink, British Transport Police and Sussex Police all had their part to play in this omnishambles. Everyone knew that there would be many many thousands of visitors arriving and leaving by train and the choke point would obviously come 30 mins after Britney ended. GTR say they had 15 extra trains ready to use, but as usual with this shambolic organisation they hadn't thought through the logistics. I also cite Brighton Council as a villain; they are happy to close roads for the party but where were the dozens of skips required on every corner for the sea of rubbish, and where were the portaloos needed around town to stop every doorway and alleyway becoming a sewer? If all the bodies mentioned above can't get their act together for next year then I don't think Brighton should be allowed to host another Pride.