This "Fans not customers" rubbish

[Hamilton]

Except some jump on the anti brigade without even knowing the details of what is being announced (such as the new membership scheme) which is sadly where your point fails miserably.

They have made it so easy to jump on by managing announcements in such a dodgy fashion

 

[Knotty]

the customer is always right

No, he's not.

Some customers are right some of the time.

As NSC constantly proves, some customers differ with others on what is right so they can't all be right!

 

[el punal]

I'm getting fed up with people going on about fans not customers all the time, I wrote the article below for amexnorthstand.com a while ago which sums up my feelings on the matter. It seems everything Paul Barber does is wrong and people spout this fans not customers rubbish all the time when in fact I don't think people actually understand what they are saying. The new Seagull Priority scheme is to make sure our development as a club continues and we are ready for the next level, if the club waits until we get there then the same people will be moaning that we didn't do it earlier! the scheme is optional after all, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to join.

Anyway, my piece.

Maybe it's just me but I really don’t get this 'Fans not customers' debate. I grew up at the Goldstone, started on the East terrace, moved to the West Stand, often flirting with the South along the way before finally arriving in the North Stand.

If we look beyond the romantic notion of the 'good old days' and look how we were treated during the Goldstone era, these were the days when we were treated just as football fans and the vast amounts of disrespect that went with it. We stood in fenced in pens, often dangerously crammed in for the bigger games, we had to avoid the odd fight when the away fans fancied having a 'go'. Having to stand far too close to people who didn't pay too much attention to personal hygiene, with no way of moving away. Does anyone remember the revolving spikes on top of the fencing when the away fans were in the East? People wouldn't stand for that now would they? The catering offerings, and I use the term catering loosely, were abysmal, really poor and no beer allowed in the later years, we used to queue for food alongside the Gents which used to omit the foulest aroma you could imagine. I'm sure someone has a picture of that area behind the North Stand and how bad it was. In those days we had no real voice, we just accepted that this was the way football fans were treated.

Football has moved on, it had to, to survive it had to change dramatically and it did, we lagged behind this revolution what with the saga that was Brighton and Hove Albion. Thankfully we are now no longer on the road to perdition but have a far brighter future, this future depends on us going in our numbers and making the most of the facilities and all that it entails.

A customer is someone who purchases goods or services from another. Whether you like it or not we are all customers. I purchase a great deal from the club, my son sees to this! This includes merchandise, tickets, food and drink and in all those interactions I want to be treated well. I want to be treated with respect, I want to be served in a reasonable time whether it's in the club shop, on the phone or in the queue for pie and a pint. I like that I can have pint with mates before and after the game, watch Sky or the highlights. I want good value (open to debate I know) and to enjoy the Amex experience. If I didn't get these things I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else. Basically if I'm treated well, I will go back for more and recommend the club to others. The club and football in general needs to continue to move forward, give the fans good service and something that they want and they will keep coming back. We cannot rely solely on the blind faith of fans to return week in week out, we need to attract new fans to the BHA family.

As customers, we can expect to be well treated, we have been given the best and that is the benchmark the club have set themselves, and we, as customers expect that level to be maintained. We have a voice and clearly that voice is being heard as we see improvements all round the place and as customers we can continue to see these improvements to our Amex experience because that is what the club wants.

If being a customer means I get all what we've got then and more to come, who am I to complain. Am I happy to be a customer? Yes I am. Am I happy to be a fan as well? Do you really need to ask?

For those who continually bang on about being fans not customers, have a think about what that really means.

The way I see it, we are Customers AND fans, and long may it continue.

Thank you for your common sense post. It makes a change to read something positive about the club rather than turgid, hand wringing, bile spitting, uninformed, untrue load of tosh and twaddle that we have had to suffer on here for the last few weeks.

 

[glasfryn]

No, he's not.

Some customers are right some of the time.

As NSC constantly proves, some customers differ with others on what is right so they can't all be right!

but if you are the seller of the goods to a customer then the customer is always right
ask Tesco's
M&S
Asda
British home stores
and just about any one in the service industry even those self employed
and I would go as far to say ask Cameron or Gideon
the customer pays so the customer is always right
unless you want to call the customer a fan then he/she will be shite on from a great height server manky food have bad transportation and a ground like Withdean.
or even the good old Goldstone were you could at least stand without being dragged out like some thug

choices

 

[Diego Napier]

If a customer is not happy with the service at BHAFC he will go find another service, or in this case another franchise. Fans, however, will stick with the club no matter what. That's not saying fans aren't customers too, but it's not all that we are - and this new maxim "fans not customers" has arisen because some fans feel as if they are being treated only as customers, with the unwelcome marketing strategies which devalue the community & fan centric ethos that has made our club so great in the past - when the reality is that we would give our money to the club without any resentment anyway.

Barbers marketing and branding decisions are continually made without any consultation with the fans and it is clear that many of us don't agree with them, or we think they should be done in a different way.

Transparency, honesty, communication from the club is all that is required to make fans feel as if they are fans again, not just customers.

It is clear that a vociferous minority don't agree with them.

 

[Knotty]

but if you are the seller of the goods to a customer then the customer is always right
ask Tesco's
M&S
Asda
British home stores
and just about any one in the service industry even those self employed
and I would go as far to say ask Cameron or Gideon
the customer pays so the customer is always right
unless you want to call the customer a fan then he/she will be shite on from a great height server manky food have bad transportation and a ground like Withdean.
or even the good old Goldstone were you could at least stand without being dragged out like some thug

choices

None of that makes all customers right all of the time.

If you and I disagree totally on the quality of something that we purchase from the club, are we both still right? How does the club react to that?

I have been in the service industry for over 40 years and I've had many customers who were wrong. Sometime they genuinely believe they're right and you either just let it ride or you advise them of their misconception. Sometimes they know they're wrong but are trying it on. They are told just that.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Agree very much with the sentiments of the OP. I just don't get this anti-Barber nonsense. Whilst, given our history, we should view everyone with a degree of scepticism, I have no real complaints over any of Barber's actions. I couldn't give a monkeys whether I'm referred to as a customer or a fan, the membership scheme seems reasonable and getting rid of Gullys Girls was fine by me. TB clearly trusts Barber to do the right thing. I have no idea who's right and who's wrong between Poyet/Barber, if indeed the issue is between them, so can't comment on that. I loved the Albion when we were a somewhat ramshackle organisation at the Goldstone, Priestfield and Withdean and I do somewhat miss those days but if we want to be a professional, potentially Premiership outfit then we have to be run as such.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

None of that makes all customers right all of the time.

If you and I disagree totally on the quality of something that we purchase from the club, are we both still right? How does the club react to that?

I have been in the service industry for over 40 years and I've had many customers who were wrong. Sometime they genuinely believe they're right and you either just let it ride or you advise them of their misconception. Sometimes they know they're wrong but are trying it on. They are told just that.

95% of customers are right all of the time. 5% of customers are wrong all the time but shout loud enough to make themselves right.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

We're fans and customers, correct. However there are elements of this new scheme and other stuff that is forgetting the 'fans' part, so no, I don't completely agree with your piece.

 

[hitony]

From what I can see, most of you are neither Fans or customers........ Your JCLs!!!

 

[severnside gull]

Had this discussion yesyerday with some students who were suggesting.that clubs should take fans' views more into account snd also should allow standing. One supported Man U, one Chelsea, and one Liverpool. Only the scouser was supporting his home town club. All were much too young to remember our history of football hooliganism. All said they own replica kit, merchandise and so forth.

It really felt as if they wanted all the positives of the modern customer oriented game but harken back to some idyllic period in the game that they certainly never knew even if it ever existed. The debate on here usually feels much the same

I have no problem with fans/customers arguing what they should be called and how they should be treated, wanting the world and then some, but while they carry on carrying on I shall reflect on my memories of what the past was really like and the fact that I am no longer the youth I once was and I shall enjoy my comfortable seat and coffee in the lounge

 

[severnside gull]

Had this discussion yesyerday with some students who were suggesting.that clubs should take fans' views more into account snd also should allow standing. One supported Man U, one Chelsea, and one Liverpool. Only the scouser was supporting his home town club. Alk eere much too young to remember our history of football hooliganism. All said they own replica kit and so forth.

It really felt as if they wanted all the positives of the modern customer oriented game but harken back to some idyllic period in the game that they certainly s never knew even if it ever existed. The debate on here usually feels much the same

I have no problem with fans/customers arguing what they should be called and how they should be treated, wanting the world and then some, but while they carry on carrying on I shall reflect on my memories of what the past was really like and the fact that I am no longer the youth I once was and I shall enjoy my comfortable seat and coffee in the lounge

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

What's wrong with consulting the fans first? If the club and fans work together, like a community and fan centric club should, these marketing decisions could be made without any risk of boycott or resentment.

For example - if the fans were consulted about the clackers at Palace first - would they have happened?

Just admit it. You have a major downer on Paul Barber, and don't really understand fully why you do? Or is it not Paul Barber you have the issue with. It is that Tony Bloom suspended Poyet, but you feel unable to have a pop at him, so take it out on the next man in line under him.

Do you really expect a daily update in where the club is at with Poyet? Can you understand why that cannot happen?

You mention the clackers, which confirms to me you are just pissed off that Poyets gone.

If "Poyets" email (and I still have doubts that was written by Poyet, even more so when they club announced the extent of the mess) hadn't mentioned the clackers, would you have mentioned them here?

Was there a widespread anger towards them when they where used at the end of the Withdean saga? I don't recall it.

Was there anger at them at the Palace game.... I don't recall it.

But because Sir Gus is alleged to have not liked them after losing against Palace (Don't recall him complaining at Withdean when we won the league), you use it as an excuse to have another pop at Barber.

Or maybe you would be happier without a Chief Exc, and have the club run like they were 15 years ago.

Seriously, what is your problem with Paul Barber?

Bear in mind though, Tony Bloom appointed him to do the job he is currently so, p***ing you off doing!!

 

[glasfryn]

None of that makes all customers right all of the time.

If you and I disagree totally on the quality of something that we purchase from the club, are we both still right? How does the club react to that?

I have been in the service industry for over 40 years and I've had many customers who were wrong. Sometime they genuinely believe they're right and you either just let it ride or you advise them of their misconception. Sometimes they know they're wrong but are trying it on. They are told just that.

compromise

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

the customer is always right

NO they bloody aint!!!

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

compromise

SO how can the club/compromise to make you a happy customer.

 

[glasfryn]

SO how can the club/compromise to make you a happy customer.

some transparency would be a start

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

If a customer is not happy with the service at BHAFC he will go find another service, or in this case another franchise. Fans, however, will stick with the club no matter what. That's not saying fans aren't customers too, but it's not all that we are - and this new maxim "fans not customers" has arisen because some fans feel as if they are being treated only as customers, with the unwelcome marketing strategies which devalue the community & fan centric ethos that has made our club so great in the past - when the reality is that we would give our money to the club without any resentment anyway.

Barbers marketing and branding decisions are continually made without any consultation with the fans and it is clear that many of us don't agree with them, or we think they should be done in a different way.

Transparency, honesty, communication from the club is all that is required to make fans feel as if they are fans again, not just customers.

Sorry I know I've already quoted you on another point, but you HAVE to accept, that if this club is not run as a slick business, then we will fade in time back to the dark days, albeit with our own (less than half full) ground.

As much as I hate dickheads who quote, if you don't like it go and support Palace crap, I feel if you don't like it, don't go! You can still be a fan without going and spending your money every week. If you feel so strongly that they are treating you poorly, stop sending money. If you're correct, and enough people agree with you, things will change. If the club continues to sell out season tickets and match tickets week after week, they you may have to accept that your views are not correct and that you are in the minority. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

FWIW I consider myself a number one, a fan, always have been always will be, and number two a customer. I go to most games (all home, loads away) and I am a fan of Brighton. If for whatever reason I can't go and watch a game, I'm still a fan. If I spend my money, I'm also a customer.

I don't get this fan/customer debate at all. To me its just an excuse to have a pop at the club, and it seems Paul Barber is the one a handful are turning on, because they don't want to face the truth, that it was Tony Bloom that got rid of their precious Poyet. I think this is all about people not being able to accept, that Poyet was not the manager they thought he was. But they can't have a pop at Tony Bloom for obvious reasons, so go for Paul Barber instead!! The man is just doing his job, as Tony Bloom and the board requires.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

some transparency would be a start

OKay, so what you like them to be more transparent about then?

 

[woody12a]

Sorry I know I've already quoted you on another point, but you HAVE to accept, that if this club is not run as a slick business, then we will fade in time back to the dark days, albeit with our own (less than half full) ground.

As much as I hate dickheads who quote, if you don't like it go and support Palace crap, I feel if you don't like it, don't go! You can still be a fan without going and spending your money every week. If you feel so strongly that they are treating you poorly, stop sending money. If you're correct, and enough people agree with you, things will change. If the club continues to sell out season tickets and match tickets week after week, they you may have to accept that your views are not correct and that you are in the minority. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

FWIW I consider myself a number one, a fan, always have been always will be, and number two a customer. I go to most games (all home, loads away) and I am a fan of Brighton. If for whatever reason I can't go and watch a game, I'm still a fan. If I spend my money, I'm also a customer.

I don't get this fan/customer debate at all. To me its just an excuse to have a pop at the club, and it seems Paul Barber is the one a handful are turning on, because they don't want to face the truth, that it was Tony Bloom that got rid of their precious Poyet. I think this is all about people not being able to accept, that Poyet was not the manager they thought he was. But they can't have a pop at Tony Bloom for obvious reasons, so go for Paul Barber instead!! The man is just doing his job, as Tony Bloom and the board requires.

Strongly agree !