This "Fans not customers" rubbish

[BadFish]

I would like to see a fans representative or two voted on to the board every year. They could be their to represent the fans perspective on decision making and improve communication between the club and the rest of us. Who gets to vote for them would have ot be discussed of course but off the top of my head it could be season ticket holders and membership scheme members.

Just an idea and I don't have the fine details of how it would work (which i know upsets some people on here). I also know that is would be different and difficult but I think that with what the fans have done for this club over the years we should be represented a given a bit of a voice in what goes on.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Ouch guys...please learn the difference between 'precious' and 'precocious'....sorry to be a pedant but I'm halfway through a bottle of vodka ...and the end is nigh...

 

[Brovion]

maybe the way to go with this is to have a small amount of fans who come from all of those you have mentioned to meet with those on the board and SUGGEST some of the fans ideas ..they of coarse do not have to take up any of the ideas ,but at least there would be discussion.


yes it was

NO! NO! NO! How will those fans be appointed? Who will they be accountable to? Out of all the ideas floated on here that is one of the worst, you'll end up with a tiny group of superfans (and their mates) who have a conduit to the club and inevitably will only put forward their ideas and opinions. The rest of us (99.99%) will be even more disenfranchised that we are at the moment - not that we necessarily should be enfranchised of course. And unlike clubs like say Blackburn we've already got fans on our board.

To summarise the last few pages:

Tubby: Right
Mustafa: Wrong

And I've been supporting Brighton since 1966 and been posting on NSC since 1999, so obviously my opinion is more valid than most people's. (That's a joke btw!)

 

[drew]

I think the crux of this thread is that there are some, names not mentioned (!), who are so wrapped up in their adulation of GP that they are striking out at whatever and whomever they see as responsible. There is no debate whether we are fans or customers as we are both, a point that PB made in his interview. The whole point of mentioning 'customer' is to treat fans as if they have a choice and in doing so drive up standards. No one can surely argue that the Amex experience isn't far better fare than we have ever been served up in the rest of our 112 history and probably far better than most other fans get at their own stadiums.

The idea that fans should have an input on everything is pie in the sky. If there were fans allowed to contribute at boardroom level (excepting of course those fans who are legitimately there by way of directorships and/or shareholdings), it would be on token aspects such as flavour of the special pies, supplier of toilet paper etc etc. They would be excluded from any discussions relating to finance, staffing and playing squad. So whilst their presence might pander to the ego of self styled uber fans, it would in effect just be a meaningless gesture. Also, as someone else said, will they be promoting their ideas or will they have to canvas opinion from fans they supposedly represent and, if the majority were in support of something the 'uber fan' didn't agree with, how well would they promote that idea at a meeting.

As a fan of fast approaching 40 years, I go because I love watching the Albion and want to see the team achieve success on the pitch. As a regular at Priestfield and the Withdean, match day experience, whilst nice, is not the reason I go. I do however accept that there are people who are going now because the whole experience is better now than it has ever been and, coupled with success on the pitch, it is a great day out. Compare that to the years at the Withdean, even in the heady days of two promotions and Zamora, when it wasn't a great day out, hence the fact that Withdean was very rarely sold out. I know of many who have bought ST whilst still being fans of other clubs. Someone who has spent 20 to 30 years supporting or following another club might well have ST because it is a good day out, but you're unlikely to change their primary allegiance but so what. I very much suspect that happens at most clubs.

Whether you like it or not, we are like most clubs striving to achieve success and climb the football pyramid as far as we can and that success, in my opinion, would be severely limited if the club were run like some egalitarian commune!

 

[glasfryn]

NO! NO! NO! How will those fans be appointed? Who will they be accountable to? Out of all the ideas floated on here that is one of the worst, you'll end up with a tiny group of superfans (and their mates) who have a conduit to the club and inevitably will only put forward their ideas and opinions. The rest of us (99.99%) will be even more disenfranchised that we are at the moment - not that we necessarily should be enfranchised of course. And unlike clubs like say Blackburn we've already got fans on our board.

To summarise the last few pages:

Tubby: Right
Mustafa: Wrong

And I've been supporting Brighton since 1966 and been posting on NSC since 1999, so obviously my opinion is more valid than most people's. (That's a joke btw!)

the last sentence was the Idea DISCUSSION

I think the crux of this thread is that there are some, names not mentioned (!), who are so wrapped up in their adulation of GP that they are striking out at whatever and whomever they see as responsible. There is no debate whether we are fans or customers as we are both, a point that PB made in his interview. The whole point of mentioning 'customer' is to treat fans as if they have a choice and in doing so drive up standards. No one can surely argue that the Amex experience isn't far better fare than we have ever been served up in the rest of our 112 history and probably far better than most other fans get at their own stadiums.

The idea that fans should have an input on everything is pie in the sky. If there were fans allowed to contribute at boardroom level (excepting of course those fans who are legitimately there by way of directorships and/or shareholdings), it would be on token aspects such as flavour of the special pies, supplier of toilet paper etc etc. They would be excluded from any discussions relating to finance, staffing and playing squad. So whilst their presence might pander to the ego of self styled uber fans, it would in effect just be a meaningless gesture. Also, as someone else said, will they be promoting their ideas or will they have to canvas opinion from fans they supposedly represent and, if the majority were in support of something the 'uber fan' didn't agree with, how well would they promote that idea at a meeting.

As a fan of fast approaching 40 years, I go because I love watching the Albion and want to see the team achieve success on the pitch. As a regular at Priestfield and the Withdean, match day experience, whilst nice, is not the reason I go. I do however accept that there are people who are going now because the whole experience is better now than it has ever been and, coupled with success on the pitch, it is a great day out. Compare that to the years at the Withdean, even in the heady days of two promotions and Zamora, when it wasn't a great day out, hence the fact that Withdean was very rarely sold out. I know of many who have bought ST whilst still being fans of other clubs. Someone who has spent 20 to 30 years supporting or following another club might well have ST because it is a good day out, but you're unlikely to change their primary allegiance but so what. I very much suspect that happens at most clubs.

Whether you like it or not, we are like most clubs striving to achieve success and climb the football pyramid as far as we can and that success, in my opinion, would be severely limited if the club were run like some egalitarian commune!

MORE OR LESS MY OWN SENTIMENTS BUT WITH A FEW TWEAKS
I am afraid my adulation has always been the Albion, but I must admit that we have had probably the second best manager the Albion has had and until we know what has happened my opinion on that will stay the same (on that point the best manager we ever had was also very controversial in some of the things he did).
my contention is that there must be some discussion along the line somewhere otherwise there will be some dissatisfaction even Marks and Spencer talk to there customers (the one time they did'nt when they introduced their own credit card with huge interest they started to slide) they thought it would be good for their customers and the customers thought differently.
I must also say that I really don't care who is the CEO and that I admire Tony Bloom for what he has done for the Albion I would just like the mess cleared up (no pun intended) and that we either re-instate the manager we have or find a new one ....and quick and in this I trust Tony to find another gem who also has a little edge to him or her.
and just one final thought here Virgin built from nothing by a man who got where he is not by keeping silent but by keeping his staff happy and his customers happy by asking both how he can improve his business

 

[drew]

the last sentence was the Idea DISCUSSION



MORE OR LESS MY OWN SENTIMENTS BUT WITH A FEW TWEAKS
I am afraid my adulation has always been the Albion, but I must admit that we have had probably the second best manager the Albion has had and until we know what has happened my opinion on that will stay the same (on that point the best manager we ever had was also very controversial in some of the things he did).
my contention is that there must be some discussion along the line somewhere otherwise there will be some dissatisfaction even Marks and Spencer talk to there customers (the one time they did'nt when they introduced their own credit card with huge interest they started to slide) they thought it would be good for their customers and the customers thought differently.
I must also say that I really don't care who is the CEO and that I admire Tony Bloom for what he has done for the Albion I would just like the mess cleared up (no pun intended) and that we either re-instate the manager we have or find a new one ....and quick and in this I trust Tony to find another gem who also has a little edge to him or her.
and just one final thought here Virgin built from nothing by a man who got where he is not by keeping silent but by keeping his staff happy and his customers happy by asking both how he can improve his business

Great, sounds like we are reaching some common ground. In an ideal world it would be great if everyone could have their say before decisions are made but reality is different. As I see it, the discussion comes from whether something the club (or for that matter, any organisation as in our example of M & S) do is a success or not. If the fans don't like it they, if they can without affecting watching the game, will reject it. I have no qualms about who is CEO but am happy with Barber as he comes with a good track record and reputation. At the end of the day, I suspect for the vast majority of fans it is what happens on the pitch that counts. The rest is pretty much window dressing.

 

[glasfryn]

Great, sounds like we are reaching some common ground. In an ideal world it would be great if everyone could have their say before decisions are made but reality is different. As I see it, the discussion comes from whether something the club (or for that matter, any organisation as in our example of M & S) do is a success or not. If the fans don't like it they, if they can without affecting watching the game, will reject it. I have no qualms about who is CEO but am happy with Barber as he comes with a good track record and reputation. At the end of the day, I suspect for the vast majority of fans it is what happens on the pitch that counts. The rest is pretty much window dressing.

I think we might have always had common ground
the thing I have a problem with things being said that blatently are not so
whatever happens there will be people on NSC that will not be happy and the word I would like to see more often is compromise not only on here but maybe at the Albion too

 

[Guy Fawkes]

You're missing the point. The fans are vulnerable to being exploited as customers, because like you say they will come anyway - regardless of how expensive it becomes to be a fan of this club, or how detached from its community and fan centric values it becomes due to ridiculous marketing exercises, Albion fans will still come on the most part - and even if they do end up saying enough is enough, the club currently won't be too concerned as it doesn't appear to value its fans any more than the thousands of other customers in attendance anymore - As long as bums are on seats, who cares how passionate or loyal they are - and that is wrong and what the whole problem is about.

If the real fans do end up having enough of it all and losing their passion for the Albion, if you think that we won't be missed you would be wrong. Brighton is a club on the up, in the second division playing exciting football - but it won't be like this forever. There will be a time where the club can't fill the stadium and is desperate to get bums on seats - and that will be the time when it will regret not acknowledging its true and loyal fanbase more, and accepting that they are so much more of an important part of the club than any regular "customer"

The club should be working with the real fans - ensuring that the Albion offers an authentic football experience that have made football fans so loyal and passionate about football for over a hundred years - so it can show the way to the rest of the 30,000 people currently in attendance, so they can share our passion - and stick with us when times are tough - I feel this is vital for the long-term future of the club, but suspect that short-term profit is the only thing that concerns our commercial team.

That's a very short sighted view of things, you think that the club only needs its long term fans and has no chance of turning the "thousands of other fans in attendance" into "passionate or loyal fans" so they should only focus on the select group you want them to focus on (current passionate & loyal fans) and only look after that small group, creating a two tier approach by the club and potentially alienating the other thousands in attendance, making them even more likely to stop going if things ever go bad.

The club did nothing to try to treat me as a customer or as a fan when i first started watching the team when we were at the Goldstone, it did nothing to try to make me feel a part of the club or to try to involve me in a decision making which you seem keen on now however i still became a loyal and passionate fan so i don't see why the club which does so much more now to try to get people interested and to become fans of this club arn't doing enough in your opinion to make the "true" fans feel valued so that they will stay

 

[Guy Fawkes]

@Tubby-McFat-Fuc

I am getting the impression you are a little bit mental, but as I do have the evening to spare this time, I will do my best to reply to your problems with my posts (at the very least, this may stop you hunting me down and killing me)

By "the rest of the 30,000" I meant the remaining "customers" who are not Albion fans - and by that I mean anyone who considers Brighton a second team, or perhaps Sussex residents who enjoy the new stadium or Championship football but have no real affinity to the club - there are a range of reasons why non-Brighton fans attend the Amex - However, in my opinion almost all of them have the potential to become passionate and loyal Albion fans like the rest of us, but the club needs to work hard to make them so- and by treating people as customers rather than fans is, in my eyes, undoubtedly the wrong way to make people feel as if they are part of something - part of BHAFC. Creating a superficial, commercial football supporter experience may bring immediate financial results while we are successful, but it is not showing the rest of the 30k why it is so great to be an Albion fan - It will not be enough to keep them here when times are tough.

So.. I believe that by consulting the current Albion faithful before making important decisions regarding marketing, branding or match day experiences - or indeed anything that effects the identity of the club - it will not only keep our current fans passionate about the club, but it will also guide the new or potential fans in the right direction rather than presenting superficial marketing ideas on a plate for a quick buck leading to them thinking that this is all BHAFC is about.

We have years, sometimes decades, of experience being Albion fans. We KNOW what makes being a football fan great, just as we KNOW what we dislike about modern football. If the club talks to us, listens to us, and designs these important decisions as according to our beliefs, ideals & ethos - The Albion could be the envy of the land & we could be financially successful years to come with a loyal & passionate fanbase, rather than selling our souls to become a plastic, soulless drone of a football club like all the rest in this country have become.

We need to keep all our new fans & convert the rest - We have fallen on good times, but it won't always be that way. The Albion needs to remain a unique, community based & fancentric club - not a capitalist cashcow - we can see the latter isn't working for the rest of the Championship, so why aspire to be like them

Hope this reply is satisfactory, if you have any other questions I'll be here for another half hour or so (please don't kill me)

So your point here is to make those who arn't real fans in your eyes feel even less important to the club by treating them as 2nd class to those they feel worthy of being called fans.

How do you decide which category anyone fits into (by attendance, spend, years of being a follower, etc) and how do you decide which gets priority over the other to get the special treatment and at what point to they change groups

I think your whole idea is completely pie in the sky.

You want people to see how good it is to be a fan, so they are likely to become a fan themselves and go, even in the bad times but surely the best way to achieve that is to treat them as well as they do for their current fans and so that they can see that the club is trying to look out for their interests, etc which they are currently doing very well (imo) rather than make them feel less wanted and therefore less welcome at the club

 

[glasfryn]

That's a very short sighted view of things, you think that the club only needs its long term fans and has no chance of turning the "thousands of other fans in attendance" into "passionate or loyal fans" so they should only focus on the select group you want them to focus on (current passionate & loyal fans) and only look after that small group, creating a two tier approach by the club and potentially alienating the other thousands in attendance, making them even more likely to stop going if things ever go bad.

The club did nothing to try to treat me as a customer or as a fan when i first started watching the team when we were at the Goldstone, it did nothing to try to make me feel a part of the club or to try to involve me in a decision making which you seem keen on now however i still became a loyal and passionate fan so i don't see why the club which does so much more now to try to get people interested and to become fans of this club arn't doing enough in your opinion to make the "true" fans feel valued so that they will stay

the point here is that those extra customers/fans came to watch the great football served up in the last 3/4 seasons and all power to their elbow but heres the thing will they turn up to watch the shite that you ,I and many others on here had at the Goldstone many years ago hoping in hopes that things would change and they did . We got to the promised land only to fall away again.
And once more we turned up until another guy turned up who might get us up there again and he very nearly did, now it looks like we are going to lose him.
the question is do you think those extra fans will continue turning up to watch the sort of football if thats what you could call it we watched all those years ago.
its a bit of a tightrope for those in charge and its not a job I would want have a peaceful time watching ping-pong football or be a bit edgy and play football like we have had in the last few years with a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve (this a little like the last one who took us up the last time).
Me well I am really undecided what would be best now

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I would like to see a fans representative or two voted on to the board every year. They could be their to represent the fans perspective on decision making and improve communication between the club and the rest of us. Who gets to vote for them would have ot be discussed of course but off the top of my head it could be season ticket holders and membership scheme members.

Just an idea and I don't have the fine details of how it would work (which i know upsets some people on here). I also know that is would be different and difficult but I think that with what the fans have done for this club over the years we should be represented a given a bit of a voice in what goes on.

But as we have seen on this thread and on NSC as a whole, fans have wildly differing views on virtually every subject in relation to the club and what it does on and off the field, how will a could of fans who may have their own individual views on things represent the vast majority of fans?

It seems it would be a token gesture with no real benefit other than to make a small group who feel the need to be involved in the running of the club a therefore feel self-important, probably because they lack the trust in professionals to do their jobs and to do them well. It will add very little or nothing to the majority of fans / customers we currently have and won't make them feel any more or less connected to the club than the current set up offers. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.