This "Fans not customers" rubbish

[m20gull]

I'm not sure I am missing something. Surely the point is that if the club treats you like 'fans' it can ignore what you want, pen you in cages, serve you bottled beer and crap pies and can afford to do that because it knows you will come back anyway. If it treats you like a customer and pretends that you have a choice, so makes sure you have a comfy seat, decent food and beer and pleasant experience you will come back. So treating you, a fan, like a customer is enhancing your experience because the club wants to do that. Now strangely enough that enhanced experience costs a little more, for which you, the fan, pays. But you get something for it.

 

[glasfryn]

I'm not sure I am missing something. Surely the point is that if the club treats you like 'fans' it can ignore what you want, pen you in cages, serve you bottled beer and crap pies and can afford to do that because it knows you will come back anyway. If it treats you like a customer and pretends that you have a choice, so makes sure you have a comfy seat, decent food and beer and pleasant experience you will come back. So treating you, a fan, like a customer is enhancing your experience because the club wants to do that. Now strangely enough that enhanced experience costs a little more, for which you, the fan, pays. But you get something for it.

but if the football is shite no matter how comfortable you are in your padded seat eating great pies and drinking great drinks you won't come back next week unless you have a ST and then you won't come back next season.
it was good last season but god forbid it might not be that good again for a long time

 

[drew]

I don't think we should be consulted about most things, and haven't said that. I'm fairly sure modern football isn't for me, but I'd never suggest the customers are being treated like crap.

As an 'matchday experience' (as everything seems to have to be these days) the Amex is top class. However, if you want these customers to feel emotionally involved enough to come back when the football isn't as great you have to make enough of them into fans. To do that there needs to be some give and take from the business. This can be as little as valuing every one of them (not creating a 'better class' of fan with different 'aspirations'), or as much as fan representation on the Board. A lot of it goes down to understanding your 'core customer needs', and in a business like football the most important thing is to NOT make those that pay your wages feel like they personally are replaceable. It sounds and feels arrogant, and when people are spending a fair amount of money at a business with a finite catchment then it can be a very fine line to walk.

As others have alluded to, the reference to the 70s is probably quite appropriate. In the 70s, clubs treated us like fans. That is, they didn't care what they did because they relied on the fact the fans would still come back. Fenced in, crap catering, piss poor toilets, frogmarched from station to stadium at away games etc etc. When the team is successful then the apparent fanbase is bigger but when the performance on the pitch deteriorates then so does the attendance. We have 30k because we are successful. Have a bad season and that would drop. Treat people like customers, ie that they have a choice, then maybe when the good times aren't so good, those people that are casual fans might still come back. Not all of them but far more than if you just treated them like the good ole days.


At the end of the day, no one at the club has said we are one or the other, it is just being used as a stick by the Gus brigade to beat Barber with.

 

[teaboy]

I'm not sure I am missing something. Surely the point is that if the club treats you like 'fans' it can ignore what you want, pen you in cages, serve you bottled beer and crap pies and can afford to do that because it knows you will come back anyway. If it treats you like a customer and pretends that you have a choice, so makes sure you have a comfy seat, decent food and beer and pleasant experience you will come back. So treating you, a fan, like a customer is enhancing your experience because the club wants to do that. Now strangely enough that enhanced experience costs a little more, for which you, the fan, pays. But you get something for it.

Whether you want it or not. There is no 'option' anymore. In the past there was the choice of standing to watch the game or paying a bit more for a better 'footballing experience'. Now, there's just the 'footballing experience'. You're right about "pretending you have a choice".

As others have alluded to, the reference to the 70s is probably quite appropriate. In the 70s, clubs treated us like fans. That is, they didn't care what they did because they relied on the fact the fans would still come back. Fenced in, crap catering, piss poor toilets, frogmarched from station to stadium at away games etc etc. When the team is successful then the apparent fanbase is bigger but when the performance on the pitch deteriorates then so does the attendance. We have 30k because we are successful. Have a bad season and that would drop. Treat people like customers, ie that they have a choice, then maybe when the good times aren't so good, those people that are casual fans might still come back. Not all of them but far more than if you just treated them like the good ole days.


At the end of the day, no one at the club has said we are one or the other, it is just being used as a stick by the Gus brigade to beat Barber with.

And as 'customers' you can be charged over the odds for stuff you don't want or need but are essentially forced to pay for because there are plenty of other teams you could go and watch. The fact that football doesn't work like that is irrelevant.

I don't think anyone has called for a return to the terrible treatment of people because they happen to like going to football. It's perfectly possible to treat people well and have a good range of good quality refreshments available without treating them as disposable sources of income. Just because something has been worse in the past it doesn't mean it's right today.

 

[m20gull]

Whether you want it or not. There is no 'option' anymore. In the past there was the choice of standing to watch the game or paying a bit more for a better 'footballing experience'. Now, there's just the 'footballing experience'. You're right about "pretending you have a choice".

There are plenty of options from not going to football, going to a non-league game, paying about £20 a game to stand in the North Stand (with a season ticket including travel or parking), paying more to sit in the main stands, paying even more for 1901 club. That's loads of options.
And would you rather go to Anfield and pay £3.60 for a warm bottle of lager, or pay £3.90 (less 10% for using the smart card = £3.51) for a pint of cold draught lager? And have the choice of two lagers, or Guinness, or ale or cider. Brighton could have opted for the former but decided people might come back more often if they gave them more for less. By treating people as customers.

 

[teaboy]

There are plenty of options from not going to football, going to a non-league game, paying about £20 a game to stand in the North Stand (with a season ticket including travel or parking), paying more to sit in the main stands, paying even more for 1901 club. That's loads of options.
And would you rather go to Anfield and pay £3.60 for a warm bottle of lager, or pay £3.90 (less 10% for using the smart card = £3.51) for a pint of cold draught lager? And have the choice of two lagers, or Guinness, or ale or cider. Brighton could have opted for the former but decided people might come back more often if they gave them more for less. By treating people as customers.

No you can't. You sit where you're told.

Again, you're giving the 'well go and support someone else then' answer, which isn't applicable to football. It isn't the same as preferring Sainsbury's to Tesco, and you know that. There's also no reason why the catering choices cannot remain (after all, the customers love it) but also treating your customers as fans who will return through thick and thin by understanding why people turn up in the first place.

People don't go to football for pies and beer. That's why they go to pubs. If the pies and beer were different would you still go, or would you go to Crawley where the chips are great, or maybe Chelsea where they do a great cappuccino instead?

 

[m20gull]

Again, you're giving the 'well go and support someone else then' answer, which isn't applicable to football.

I'm not intending to, so I will try again. The club has a choice: treat you like a fan, I.e not bother what you think because they know you will come anyway (as you're not going to go somewhere else) or treat you like a customer, I.e actually care what you think and try to provide you with good things that you want to buy reasonably priced. To a business customers are people you are nice to; treat them like a cash cow and they will not come back.
Fans that buy food and drink contribute to revenue and hence playing budget as well. It's not all about ticket income.

 

[m20gull]

As long as bums are on seats, who cares how passionate or loyal they are - and that is wrong and what the whole problem is about.

what makes you think this is the club's view?

 

[MattBackHome]

If anyone here thinks they are not a customer they are deluded.

 

[portlock seagull]

I've been served shit on and off the field by the Albion most of my life. In fact, you could say I'm loyal to brand "shit". Don't see why I'm going to change now just because we didn't go up or the Rose is served at room temperature - could only get Bovril until we moved to the Amex!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've been served shit on and off the field by the Albion most of my life. In fact, you could say I'm loyal to brand "shit". Don't see why I'm going to change now just because we didn't go up or the Rose is served at room temperature - could only get Bovril until we moved to the Amex!

Not a bad point actually. All this talk about this ticketing membership thing...I'd probably be more suspicious if the club finally nailed ticketing on the head.

 

[glasfryn]

I've been served shit on and off the field by the Albion most of my life. In fact, you could say I'm loyal to brand "shit". Don't see why I'm going to change now just because we didn't go up or the Rose is served at room temperature - could only get Bovril until we moved to the Amex!

and that was shite
sorry girls if any of you are looking

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

The club should be working with the real fans - ensuring that the Albion offers an authentic football experience that have made football fans so loyal and passionate about football for over a hundred years - so it can show the way to the rest of the 30,000 people currently in attendance, so they can share our passion - and stick with us when times are tough - I feel this is vital for the long-term future of the club, but suspect that short-term profit is the only thing that concerns our commercial team.

I know you dislike anyone questioning your views, and ignore any posts that you may struggle to answer, but in post #78 you stated

To reply to your question though, I feel the club should consult the fans with everything - From the match day experience, to our shirts and identity, to the way the club operates financially. Clackers, membership schemes, half time entertainment - the list goes on - all these things should be decided with the fans, the people who make up this football club and have been here since 1901, not by some bloke who has spent the last few years of his career managing a franchise in the US and would happily shaft the lot of us & sell the clubs soul as long as it looked good on his CV.

now ignoring the fact I chased you all over NSC for an answer on how the club are expected to do that (I won't waste everyones time in repeating it for a 4th time post #82); but can you clarify that comment above.

The club should be working with the real fans - ensuring that the Albion offers an authentic football experience that have made football fans so loyal and passionate about football for over a hundred years - so it can show the way to the rest of the 30,000 people currently in attendance, so they can share our passion

What does that even mean? Earlier you were saying that the club should consult all fans, down it appears you've whittled it down to the real fans, and as you quote the rest of the 30000 currently in attendance, I'm just wondering how many real fans you think there are?

Our record gate was 30003, you speak of showing the other 30000, so have we only got 3 real fans, and as you are so vocal about it, I would think you are one of them, I would presume Tony Bloom would be one of them, so who is the other real fan out there that the club needs to consult?

Is it any of us on here? Who is the 3rd and final superfan?

As you didn't reply earlier, can you just clarify should the club be consulting all fans on everything is does, (from in your words - everything matchday experience, to the clickers- everything), or just Tony, yourself and the other superfan, that's if Tony is a bigger enough fan to show the way to the rest of the 30000 in attendence. Sorry if I presume.........

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

@Tubby-McFat-Fuc

I am getting the impression you are a little bit mental, but as I do have the evening to spare this time, I will do my best to reply to your problems with my posts (at the very least, this may stop you hunting me down and killing me)

By "the rest of the 30,000" I meant the remaining "customers" who are not Albion fans - and by that I mean anyone who considers Brighton a second team, or perhaps Sussex residents who enjoy the new stadium or Championship football but have no real affinity to the club - there are a range of reasons why non-Brighton fans attend the Amex - However, in my opinion almost all of them have the potential to become passionate and loyal Albion fans like the rest of us, but the club needs to work hard to make them so- and by treating people as customers rather than fans is, in my eyes, undoubtedly the wrong way to make people feel as if they are part of something - part of BHAFC. Creating a superficial, commercial football supporter experience may bring immediate financial results while we are successful, but it is not showing the rest of the 30k why it is so great to be an Albion fan - It will not be enough to keep them here when times are tough.

So.. I believe that by consulting the current Albion faithful before making important decisions regarding marketing, branding or match day experiences - or indeed anything that effects the identity of the club - it will not only keep our current fans passionate about the club, but it will also guide the new or potential fans in the right direction rather than presenting superficial marketing ideas on a plate for a quick buck leading to them thinking that this is all BHAFC is about.

We have years, sometimes decades, of experience being Albion fans. We KNOW what makes being a football fan great, just as we KNOW what we dislike about modern football. If the club talks to us, listens to us, and designs these important decisions as according to our beliefs, ideals & ethos - The Albion could be the envy of the land & we could be financially successful years to come with a loyal & passionate fanbase, rather than selling our souls to become a plastic, soulless drone of a football club like all the rest in this country have become.

We need to keep all our new fans & convert the rest - We have fallen on good times, but it won't always be that way. The Albion needs to remain a unique, community based & fancentric club - not a capitalist cashcow - we can see the latter isn't working for the rest of the Championship, so why aspire to be like them

Hope this reply is satisfactory, if you have any other questions I'll be here for another half hour or so (please don't kill me)

Personal Insults. Well done.

So as I have asked you over and over and over again, but you fail to answer........... HOW?

You had a little dig which as everyone can see how now turned into insults, why I posted so much in this thread.

Its because people like you have a very loud opinion, with, in my humble opinion, not an awful lot to back it up.

So sorry if I come across a little bit mental, but I'll post what I asked yo over and over again a couple of days ago.

You clearly stated you feel the club should consult fans on

Match Day Experience
Shirts
Identity
The way it operates financially
Membership Schemes,
Half time Entertainment
The list goes on..........................
And finally if you are adding clackers, I'll say the list appears to be basically everything?

How do they do that?

They have customer service, they receive feedback.

They have asked the club on this very forum. I wonder how many clubs do that?

They hold regular fans forums?

What else do you want?

A phone call once a week/month/year to every fan(customers) who go to the ground and spend there money?

Or maybe all fans who follow us, even if they live in Chile and who maybe only follow our results?

Who decides which fans are asked? Surely if its a very important issue like clackers on seats, it should be each and very one of us?

And you will see why I keep posting, if because I have to ask the same question over and over so here goes

Can you quote where the club have made this distinction between fans/customers? What context was it made in?

 

[glasfryn]

@Tubby-McFat-Fuc

I am getting the impression you are a little bit mental, but as I do have the evening to spare this time, I will do my best to reply to your problems with my posts (at the very least, this may stop you hunting me down and killing me)

By "the rest of the 30,000" I meant the remaining "customers" who are not Albion fans - and by that I mean anyone who considers Brighton a second team, or perhaps Sussex residents who enjoy the new stadium or Championship football but have no real affinity to the club - there are a range of reasons why non-Brighton fans attend the Amex - However, in my opinion almost all of them have the potential to become passionate and loyal Albion fans like the rest of us, but the club needs to work hard to make them so- and by treating people as customers rather than fans is, in my eyes, undoubtedly the wrong way to make people feel as if they are part of something - part of BHAFC. Creating a superficial, commercial football supporter experience may bring immediate financial results while we are successful, but it is not showing the rest of the 30k why it is so great to be an Albion fan - It will not be enough to keep them here when times are tough.

So.. I believe that by consulting the current Albion faithful before making important decisions regarding marketing, branding or match day experiences - or indeed anything that effects the identity of the club - it will not only keep our current fans passionate about the club, but it will also guide the new or potential fans in the right direction rather than presenting superficial marketing ideas on a plate for a quick buck leading to them thinking that this is all BHAFC is about.

We have years, sometimes decades, of experience being Albion fans. We KNOW what makes being a football fan great, just as we KNOW what we dislike about modern football. If the club talks to us, listens to us, and designs these important decisions as according to our beliefs, ideals & ethos - The Albion could be the envy of the land & we could be financially successful years to come with a loyal & passionate fanbase, rather than selling our souls to become a plastic, soulless drone of a football club like all the rest in this country have become.

We need to keep all our new fans & convert the rest - We have fallen on good times, but it won't always be that way. The Albion needs to remain a unique, community based & fancentric club - not a capitalist cashcow - we can see the latter isn't working for the rest of the Championship, so why aspire to be like them

Hope this reply is satisfactory, if you have any other questions I'll be here for another half hour or so (please don't kill me)

I really don't know why you bother to answer him/her this is someone who does not know the difference between "got rid of" and suspension
I don't know exactly who he is ,he has not been here long and is more argumentative than anyone else on here and really is saying something

one word troll

 

[drew]

@Tubby-McFat-Fuc

"You clearly stated you feel the club should consult fans on

Match Day Experience
Shirts
Identity
The way it operates financially
Membership Schemes,
Half time Entertainment
The list goes on..........................
And finally if you are adding clackers, I'll say the list appears to be basically everything?"

Yes, basically everything

"How do they do that? "

With the internet it's easier than ever - official site, email & even NSC can be used for polls or feedback forms. Programmes, fan forums and yes telephone calls to random fans is an option. There are countless ways to communicate with the fans, but none are currently used.

"They have customer service, they receive feedback."

Yes, but "customer service and feedback" is just corporate bile that doesn't really mean much other than how a business can improve sales. This is not what I mean.

"They have asked the club on this very forum. I wonder how many clubs do that?"

I think you would be surprised. Even Palace's chairman posts rather personally on the BBS (not that I approve of that, just an immediate example of how other clubs do that too). Ask the club is a great service, but has been around since the Withdean years - but it is restricted to NSC which is a small minority of Albion fans of a certain demographic - The club should use this philosophy and reach out to as many as possible.

"They hold regular fans forums?"

Yes, but marketing decisions have not been known by the fans to enquire about at the forums - They are decided without consultation with the fans - so they are not discussed.

"What else do you want?"

As above.

"A phone call once a week/month/year to every fan(customers) who go to the ground and spend there money?"

As above. Their.

"Or maybe all fans who follow us, even if they live in Chile and who maybe only follow our results?"

Well, that would certainly make them feel like valued fans rather than customers, but it is pushing it a little bit.


....Happy now??

Meanwhile back on planet earth!!

 

[m20gull]

I really don't know why you bother to answer him/her this is someone who does not know the difference between "got rid of" and suspension
I don't know exactly who he is ,he has not been here long and is more argumentative than anyone else on here and really is saying something

one word troll

Here's a substantial part of the problem and why JCL is such a denigrated term. Why is any one 'fan's' opinion special? Who determines what makes a real fan?

What makes you think that the new fans are any less valuable. They come because they're enjoying it. Why not find out why they come and what they like?

 

[glasfryn]

I think so too, but the guy has been following me everywhere on this site. It's a bit odd, I figured the best thing to do is to answer his questions!

a) TELL HIM WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR
b)OR PUT HIM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST
EITHER WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ HIS HUGE TEXT WHICH SAY NOTHING OF ANY IMPORTANCE

oh and look out his mate has arrived

strange that

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

a) TELL HIM WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR
b)OR PUT HIM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST
EITHER WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ HIS HUGE TEXT WHICH SAY NOTHING OF ANY IMPORTANCE

@glasfryn you are a born again hard person

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

@Tubby-McFat-Fuc

"You clearly stated you feel the club should consult fans on

Match Day Experience
Shirts
Identity
The way it operates financially
Membership Schemes,
Half time Entertainment
The list goes on..........................
And finally if you are adding clackers, I'll say the list appears to be basically everything?"

Yes, basically everything

"How do they do that? "

With the internet it's easier than ever - official site, email & even NSC can be used for polls or feedback forms. Programmes, fan forums and yes telephone calls to random fans is an option. There are countless ways to communicate with the fans, but none are currently used.

"They have customer service, they receive feedback."

Yes, but "customer service and feedback" is just corporate bile that doesn't really mean much other than how a business can improve sales. This is not what I mean.

"They have asked the club on this very forum. I wonder how many clubs do that?"

I think you would be surprised. Even Palace's chairman posts rather personally on the BBS (not that I approve of that, just an immediate example of how other clubs do that too). Ask the club is a great service, but has been around since the Withdean years - but it is restricted to NSC which is a small minority of Albion fans of a certain demographic - The club should use this philosophy and reach out to as many as possible.

"They hold regular fans forums?"

Yes, but marketing decisions have not been known by the fans to enquire about at the forums - They are decided without consultation with the fans - so they are not discussed.

"What else do you want?"

As above.

"A phone call once a week/month/year to every fan(customers) who go to the ground and spend there money?"

As above. Their.

"Or maybe all fans who follow us, even if they live in Chile and who maybe only follow our results?"

Well, that would certainly make them feel like valued fans rather than customers, but it is pushing it a little bit.


....Happy now??

Happy!!! I'm laughing my arse off!!

Thanks for answering, but I think you are talking out of your arse.

The club are trying to cut costs. Not increase them with pointless polls and asking fans whether to put clackers on seats.

Customer services (corporate bile- I think that phrase sums up where you are coming from) (maybe they should rename it for you to fans services) is the way to communicate with the club!!

Polls on NSC... are you for real? Maybe the new manager should as us to pick the team in that case. Certainly we should have a say on who he signs shouldn't we? After over the past couple of years, that's where most money has been wasted, so that should be one of the main things we are asked about surely?

The club do not discuss marketing decisions..... they make marketing decisions every single business day. You want them to run everything by the fans? How are they meant to get anything done. I can hear it now, "Have those new tops arrived for the shop" or "Have American Express agreed terms for shirt sponsership yet- "No boss, we are still waiting for the results on the poll on NSC ((NSC which is a small minority of Albion fans of a certain demographic, your words but you still want them to run polls on here )), whether they want Amex or Mustafas Joke Shop to sponsor us". I'm staggered you have not read what you are asking, and thought, hang on a minute Kemal old son,I think I'm talking shit here.

Honestly, I think you are deluded. I know a lot of people throw that phrase around without cause on here, but I really think that applies to you.

If the club done as you want, we'd still be in the dark ages.

Another phrase I hate seeing on here, is if you don't like whats happening, f off and support another club.

I would never say that to a follow Albion fan, but I would suggest the only thing to keep you happy, is stop being an Albion "customer", just be a fan, go and get involved with a local County league side, sit on the committee, and you will be able to have your say on everything to whose the manager, down to the type of beer sold in the bar.

But for me, a professional championship club on verges of the premiership and the £10s of millions of turnover that brings, I'd rather leave things to be run by the board and professionals we have in place, rather than consult the fans/customers over every little thing.