This "Fans not customers" rubbish

[glasfryn]

Jesus Christ - Is that all Brighton and Hove Albion is to you? A corporate entity, a business akin to Cineworld? If so, you are getting terrible value for money, I would heavily recommend you try a new entertainment service.

No, obviously football clubs are more than just businesses. We are Brighton and Hove Albion and without the fans it is nothing - it would not exist - that is a fact.

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with football fans having a say in what goes on with the clubs that they are so loyal to - In fact it should be expected of football clubs to consult them with any important decision that is made - especially in regards to branding, but almost anything that may effect its identity and match day experience - We are fans, we are Brighton and Hove Albion, BHAFC is bigger than the board and it is certainly not just a collection of customers.

could not have said it better myself
top post

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

CHRIST ON A BIKE YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STATED THAT POYET HAD BEEN GOT RID OF NOT ME
and no I don't think he will stay and no that is not what I stated although I would like an answer some time preferably soon, so are you saying you know he has gone or not or are you like a lot on here just p***ing in the wind

jeez its been ages how long does it take to find out what has happened thats what I mean by transparency

you post was really some sort of fudge
AGAIN I will ask you have you heard that Poyet has been got rid of because if you have heard this its news to thousands

and one last thing like him or loathe him he took us to 4th

Don't try and turn it mate.

You bleat on about you want the club to be transpartent. You now say over what has happened?

Can you not understand that they cannot say anything all the time the issue is ongoing?

So you can cry and moan all you like, but you are complaining the club are not transparent, when its clear to any reasonable person, that they cannot say anything until its resolved.

How longs it going to take? How longs a piece of string?

Maybe you should ask the club to be more transparent over it? Maybe they attach a webcam to Paul Barbers head so you can be kept up to date.

What you are asking for is for the situation to resolved. We all want that.

Finally if you are going to try and pick up on a point, I'll rephrase it for you

"I don't get this fan/customer debate at all. To me its just an excuse to have a pop at the club, and it seems Paul Barber is the one a handful are turning on, because they don't want to face the truth, that it was Tony Bloom that approved the suspension of their precious Poyet. I think this is all about people not being able to accept, that Poyet was not the manager they thought he was. But they can't have a pop at Tony Bloom for obvious reasons, so go for Paul Barber instead!! The man is just doing his job, as Tony Bloom and the board requires."

Is that better. I think everyone managed to grasp the point, but then they weren't trying to cover their tracks on a constant whine aimed at the chief Exc.

So now we've estabilsed that you actually don't want the club to be more transparent, and that you just want the club to solves this mess ASAP (as we all do) what else as the nasty Paul Barber upset you about this week.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I am a fan of Brighton and Hove Albion, I am a customer of Marks and Spencers.

One of my hobbies is watching brighton and Hove Albion as a fan, I buy stuff at Marks and Spencer as a customer. I do not regard buying a ticket to watch my team in the same way as a transaction to buy milk.

For all the pretentious crap written above, I care not one jot what the OP thinks. I am a FAN not a customer...simple as. BUT if it annoys the OP so much that he has to write a blog about it, then great. I will not lose a single second of sleep over it.

 

[El Sid]

To me the whole fans not customers thing seems to be by a smallish group of people who feel the need to have their ego stroked and feel that they are owed something by the club for their support.

I suspect the vast majority of people with an interest in the Albion don't really care if we are referred to as supporters, fans or customers by the club.

Not overly bothered but I do prefer 'supporter'. To me customer implies that I have a choice of where to buy my goods, like a supermarket or major store. Most, if not all supporters make a commitment to the club regardless of results, by buying season tickets in advance. It's not like we can jack it all in and watch Crawley!

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

Jesus Christ - Is that all Brighton and Hove Albion is to you? A corporate entity, a business akin to Cineworld? If so, you are getting terrible value for money, I would heavily recommend you try a new entertainment service.

No, obviously football clubs are more than just businesses. We are Brighton and Hove Albion and without the fans it is nothing - it would not exist - that is a fact.

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with football fans having a say in what goes on with the clubs that they are so loyal to - In fact it should be expected of football clubs to consult them with any important decision that is made - especially in regards to branding, but almost anything that may effect its identity and match day experience - We are fans, we are Brighton and Hove Albion, BHAFC is bigger than the board and it is certainly not just a collection of customers.

Can you quote where the club have made this distinction between fans/customers? What context was it made in.

Also as you are very vocal on it, you say you believe the club should consult with fans on any important decision that they make. Care to share what you feel that should cover?

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

I am a fan of Brighton and Hove Albion, I am a customer of Marks and Spencers.

One of my hobbies is watching brighton and Hove Albion as a fan, I buy stuff at Marks and Spencer as a customer. I do not regard buying a ticket to watch my team in the same way as a transaction to buy milk.

For all the pretentious crap written above, I care not one jot what the OP thinks. I am a FAN not a customer...simple as. BUT if it annoys the OP so much that he has to write a blog about it, then great. I will not lose a single second of sleep over it.

I don't think deep down that anyone is truely bothered. It's just a way to have a go at someone, and that someone is Paul Barber. If they have a go at the club, they will have to acknoweldge that they are having a go at Tony Bloom (which as he employed Paul Barber they are indirectly in my eyes anyway) and who would get very far if they start that.

 

[glasfryn]

Don't try and turn it mate.

You bleat on about you want the club to be transpartent. You now say over what has happened?

Can you not understand that they cannot say anything all the time the issue is ongoing?

So you can cry and moan all you like, but you are complaining the club are not transparent, when its clear to any reasonable person, that they cannot say anything until its resolved.

How longs it going to take? How longs a piece of string?

Maybe you should ask the club to be more transparent over it? Maybe they attach a webcam to Paul Barbers head so you can be kept up to date.

What you are asking for is for the situation to resolved. We all want that.

Finally if you are going to try and pick up on a point, I'll rephrase it for you

"I don't get this fan/customer debate at all. To me its just an excuse to have a pop at the club, and it seems Paul Barber is the one a handful are turning on, because they don't want to face the truth, that it was Tony Bloom that approved the suspension of their precious Poyet. I think this is all about people not being able to accept, that Poyet was not the manager they thought he was. But they can't have a pop at Tony Bloom for obvious reasons, so go for Paul Barber instead!! The man is just doing his job, as Tony Bloom and the board requires."

Is that better. I think everyone managed to grasp the point, but then they weren't trying to cover their tracks on a constant whine aimed at the chief Exc.

So now we've estabilsed that you actually don't want the club to be more transparent, and that you just want the club to solves this mess ASAP (as we all do) what else as the nasty Paul Barber upset you about this week.

do you not see the difference between that and "got rid of "
grasped the point you say "got rid of" and what you have put now are bloody miles apart and rephrasing it does not cut one iota with me in these times on here you have to be very careful what you say and its a real wonder to me that someone else has not picked up on it

and another point here how do you know that Tony Bloom approved the suspension?

 

[Dave the OAP]

I have made it well known of my views on the said individual...we were losing money hand over fist on the footballing day to day side of the business, he has been brought in to slash and burn and to renegotiate, ie a hatchet man, and in a year or so's time, when we are back on an even keel, he will be off to do the same somewhere else...that is what hatchet men do. In business we have all come across them at some time in our lives, they may not be pleasant , but that is the nature of their job...I am not sure I could do it, but there you go.

Dave the Fan

 

[glasfryn]

I have made it well known of my views on the said individual...we were losing money hand over fist on the footballing day to day side of the business, he has been brought in to slash and burn and to renegotiate, ie a hatchet man, and in a year or so's time, when we are back on an even keel, he will be off to do the same somewhere else...that is what hatchet men do. In business we have all come across them at some time in our lives, they may not be pleasant , but that is the nature of their job...I am not sure I could do it, but there you go.

Dave the Fan

 

[Lower West Stander]

The problem I have with Barber is that he just comes over as a corporate CEO trying to maximise returns for his employer. He has absolutely no loyalty to the club and it shows. contrast this with someone like David Gill who is a genuine fan as well as being a good CEO.



I find his communications both patronising and condescending and that why we are all so cynical. I just get the impression that fans are collateral damage in his efforts to grow the top line. Unless he improves both the way he communicates with the fans and the actual methods he uses to improve the clubs finances, I think he will remain mistrusted by a large number of fans. (Which is what we are - not customers!).



No idea what has gone on with Poyet - but I think a more savvy CEO could have handled it a lot better. if he talked to Poyet like he talks to us, I can imagine the reaction!

 

[glasfryn]

I'm vocal? You're the one who has made 11 of 75 posts on this thread, you seem to be on a militant one man mission to convince everyone that the board can shaft us with anything because afterall it's only a business (which is absolute tosh for the reasons I've mentioned) Can you tell us a bit about yourself please, you are new on this site so for all we know you were supporting another team last season, so perhaps aren't familiar with all the things that make BHAFC such a great club?

To reply to your question though, I feel the club should consult the fans with everything - From the match day experience, to our shirts and identity, to the way the club operates financially. Clackers, membership schemes, half time entertainment - the list goes on - all these things should be decided with the fans, the people who make up this football club and have been here since 1901, not by some bloke who has spent the last few years of his career managing a franchise in the US and would happily shaft the lot of us & sell the clubs soul as long as it looked good on his CV.

think we might just be twins separated at birth another great post

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

do you not see the difference between that and "got rid of "
grasped the point you say "got rid of" and what you have put now are bloody miles apart and rephrasing it does not cut one iota with me in these times on here you have to be very careful what you say and its a real wonder to me that someone else has not picked up on it

and another point here how do you know that Tony Bloom approved the suspension?

So you honestly think Tony Bloom had nothing to do with it. You honestly believe a man who has £120 in the club, would allow a manager who he was worked closely to over the years, be removed from his position without his approval? Are you honestly saying that.




Can you not understand that they cannot say anything all the time the issue is ongoing?

How do you want them to be more transparent?

Would you prefer that they give daily updates on the exact details?

How do you want them to be more transparent?

Would you like to see Paul Barber sacked and Gus Poyet reinstated without knowing any facts?

How do you want them to be more transparent?

You said that, You want them to be more transparent. Tell us in what way?

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

I'm vocal? You're the one who has made 11 of 75 posts on this thread, you seem to be on a militant one man mission to convince everyone that the board can shaft us with anything because afterall it's only a business (which is absolute tosh for the reasons I've mentioned) Can you tell us a bit about yourself please, you are new on this site so for all we know you were supporting another team last season, so perhaps aren't familiar with all the things that make BHAFC such a great club?

To reply to your question though, I feel the club should consult the fans with everything - From the match day experience, to our shirts and identity, to the way the club operates financially. Clackers, membership schemes, half time entertainment - the list goes on - all these things should be decided with the fans, the people who make up this football club and have been here since 1901, not by some bloke who has spent the last few years of his career managing a franchise in the US and would happily shaft the lot of us & sell the clubs soul as long as it looked good on his CV.

I've made 11 posts, but you will notice most of them are to get someone to clarify somethings he doesn't seem to like being picked up on.

So, anyway without counting posts, lets continue

You want the club to consult fans on

Match Day Experience
Shirts
Identity
The way it operates financially
Membership Schemes,
Half time Entertainment
The list goes on..........................
And finally if you are adding clackers, I'll say the list appears to be basically everything, although if thats important to you, maybe we should be consulted over the colour of the bags the pies come in?

How do they do that?

They have customer service, they receive feedback.

They have asked the club on this very forum. I wonder how many clubs do that?

They hold regular fans forums?

What else do you want?

A phone call once a week/month/year to every fan(customers) who go to the ground and spend there money?

Or maybe all fans who follow us, even if they live in Chile and who maybe only follow our results?

Who decides which fans are asked? Surely if its a very important issue like clackers on seats, it should be each and very one of us?

And you will see why I keep posting, if because I have to ask the same question over and over so here goes

Can you quote where the club have made this distinction between fans/customers? What context was it made in?

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

I am a FAN of Brighton and Hove Albion as a THING. But really, as soon as you purchase something of anything you become a customer of it. So I am both a fan and a customer of the club. Call me either. I am enjoying the ride.

 

[drew]

some transparency would be a start

I think this has already been answered, ie you, like everyone else, would like the manager situation resolved. However, unlike a lot of people you see a disciplinary issue as your personal business and you have the right (as opposed to interest) to know all the facts. If you were the one being disciplined by your employer for something that you know you didn't do, would you like them to advertise the fact all over the office or wherever it is you work?

Jesus Christ - Is that all Brighton and Hove Albion is to you? A corporate entity, a business akin to Cineworld? If so, you are getting terrible value for money, I would heavily recommend you try a new entertainment service.

No, obviously football clubs are more than just businesses. We are Brighton and Hove Albion and without the fans it is nothing - it would not exist - that is a fact.

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with football fans having a say in what goes on with the clubs that they are so loyal to - In fact it should be expected of football clubs to consult them with any important decision that is made - especially in regards to branding, but almost anything that may effect its identity and match day experience - We are fans, we are Brighton and Hove Albion, BHAFC is bigger than the board and it is certainly not just a collection of customers.

You might not like the fact but it is a business. If it wasn't, I doubt you would even be watching us play at an athletics ground. More than likely we would be playing on a local park! You have no right to any say as to what goes on in the club and if you don't like then stop going. The only power you have is with your wallet. If you exercise that power you have to hope that there isn't someone else ready to take your place as that makes the gesture meaningless. I would suggest that the vast majority of fans/customers that go to games don't spend to much time worrying whether they are in fact fans or customers. BHAFC would not exist in it's present form without the Board and certainly not without the £ input from TB. Do you think you have more rights than him?

I am a fan of Brighton and Hove Albion, I am a customer of Marks and Spencers.

One of my hobbies is watching brighton and Hove Albion as a fan, I buy stuff at Marks and Spencer as a customer. I do not regard buying a ticket to watch my team in the same way as a transaction to buy milk.

For all the pretentious crap written above, I care not one jot what the OP thinks. I am a FAN not a customer...simple as. BUT if it annoys the OP so much that he has to write a blog about it, then great. I will not lose a single second of sleep over it.

I would suggest that the pretentions come from those requiring only to be considered as fans and in some cases, actually believing that gives them rights on how the club should be run.

do you not see the difference between that and "got rid of "
grasped the point you say "got rid of" and what you have put now are bloody miles apart and rephrasing it does not cut one iota with me in these times on here you have to be very careful what you say and its a real wonder to me that someone else has not picked up on it

and another point here how do you know that Tony Bloom approved the suspension?

Semantics. We all know what he meant. As for the possibility that PB suspended GP without consulting the Chairman and biggest shareholder, it's a joke. Y

I have made it well known of my views on the said individual...we were losing money hand over fist on the footballing day to day side of the business, he has been brought in to slash and burn and to renegotiate, ie a hatchet man, and in a year or so's time, when we are back on an even keel, he will be off to do the same somewhere else...that is what hatchet men do. In business we have all come across them at some time in our lives, they may not be pleasant , but that is the nature of their job...I am not sure I could do it, but there you go.

Dave the Fan

You're right, he is a business man. I would say better to have a business man in control than someone like Peter Ridsdale. I would hardly describe him as a hatchet man. There may well have been some job losses but this is not about maximising profits for TB over the short term, it's about financial viability and maximising how much is available to a manager to spend on the team. TBs profit will come from a successful team. People want to sign Upson and Bridge. How are we expected to pay for that if we are losing money hand over fist.

I'm vocal? You're the one who has made 11 of 75 posts on this thread, you seem to be on a militant one man mission to convince everyone that the board can shaft us with anything because afterall it's only a business (which is absolute tosh for the reasons I've mentioned) Can you tell us a bit about yourself please, you are new on this site so for all we know you were supporting another team last season, so perhaps aren't familiar with all the things that make BHAFC such a great club?

To reply to your question though, I feel the club should consult the fans with everything - From the match day experience, to our shirts and identity, to the way the club operates financially. Clackers, membership schemes, half time entertainment - the list goes on - all these things should be decided with the fans, the people who make up this football club and have been here since 1901, not by some bloke who has spent the last few years of his career managing a franchise in the US and would happily shaft the lot of us & sell the clubs soul as long as it looked good on his CV.

You are one very deluded individual. Suggest you have a closer look at Paul Barber's CV. Try Wikipedia as a start.

The problem I have with Barber is that he just comes over as a corporate CEO trying to maximise returns for his employer. He has absolutely no loyalty to the club and it shows. contrast this with someone like David Gill who is a genuine fan as well as being a good CEO.

I find his communications both patronising and condescending and that why we are all so cynical. I just get the impression that fans are collateral damage in his efforts to grow the top line. Unless he improves both the way he communicates with the fans and the actual methods he uses to improve the clubs finances, I think he will remain mistrusted by a large number of fans. (Which is what we are - not customers!).


No idea what has gone on with Poyet - but I think a more savvy CEO could have handled it a lot better. if he talked to Poyet like he talks to us, I can imagine the reaction!

Who does David Gill support then? What evidence do you have that he is a fan rather than just an employee of Man Utd, just as he was at First Choice, Proudfoot Plc and the London Stock Exchange. Admittedly, he could be a Manure fan as he was born and raised in Reading!!!!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm getting fed up with people going on about fans not customers all the time, I wrote the article below for amexnorthstand.com a while ago which sums up my feelings on the matter. It seems everything Paul Barber does is wrong and people spout this fans not customers rubbish all the time when in fact I don't think people actually understand what they are saying. The new Seagull Priority scheme is to make sure our development as a club continues and we are ready for the next level, if the club waits until we get there then the same people will be moaning that we didn't do it earlier! the scheme is optional after all, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to join.

Anyway, my piece.

Maybe it's just me but I really don’t get this 'Fans not customers' debate. I grew up at the Goldstone, started on the East terrace, moved to the West Stand, often flirting with the South along the way before finally arriving in the North Stand.

If we look beyond the romantic notion of the 'good old days' and look how we were treated during the Goldstone era, these were the days when we were treated just as football fans and the vast amounts of disrespect that went with it. We stood in fenced in pens, often dangerously crammed in for the bigger games, we had to avoid the odd fight when the away fans fancied having a 'go'. Having to stand far too close to people who didn't pay too much attention to personal hygiene, with no way of moving away. Does anyone remember the revolving spikes on top of the fencing when the away fans were in the East? People wouldn't stand for that now would they? The catering offerings, and I use the term catering loosely, were abysmal, really poor and no beer allowed in the later years, we used to queue for food alongside the Gents which used to omit the foulest aroma you could imagine. I'm sure someone has a picture of that area behind the North Stand and how bad it was. In those days we had no real voice, we just accepted that this was the way football fans were treated.

Football has moved on, it had to, to survive it had to change dramatically and it did, we lagged behind this revolution what with the saga that was Brighton and Hove Albion. Thankfully we are now no longer on the road to perdition but have a far brighter future, this future depends on us going in our numbers and making the most of the facilities and all that it entails.

A customer is someone who purchases goods or services from another. Whether you like it or not we are all customers. I purchase a great deal from the club, my son sees to this! This includes merchandise, tickets, food and drink and in all those interactions I want to be treated well. I want to be treated with respect, I want to be served in a reasonable time whether it's in the club shop, on the phone or in the queue for pie and a pint. I like that I can have pint with mates before and after the game, watch Sky or the highlights. I want good value (open to debate I know) and to enjoy the Amex experience. If I didn't get these things I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else. Basically if I'm treated well, I will go back for more and recommend the club to others. The club and football in general needs to continue to move forward, give the fans good service and something that they want and they will keep coming back. We cannot rely solely on the blind faith of fans to return week in week out, we need to attract new fans to the BHA family.

As customers, we can expect to be well treated, we have been given the best and that is the benchmark the club have set themselves, and we, as customers expect that level to be maintained. We have a voice and clearly that voice is being heard as we see improvements all round the place and as customers we can continue to see these improvements to our Amex experience because that is what the club wants.

If being a customer means I get all what we've got then and more to come, who am I to complain. Am I happy to be a customer? Yes I am. Am I happy to be a fan as well? Do you really need to ask?

For those who continually bang on about being fans not customers, have a think about what that really means.

The way I see it, we are Customers AND fans, and long may it continue.

load of old tosh mate , i'm a fan never a customer , PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE ME FEEL EVER SO SLIGHTLY UNCOMFORTABLE
regards
DR

 

[drew]

I've made 11 posts, but you will notice most of them are to get someone to clarify somethings he doesn't seem to like being picked up on.

So, anyway without counting posts, lets continue

You want the club to consult fans on

Match Day Experience
Shirts
Identity
The way it operates financially
Membership Schemes,
Half time Entertainment
The list goes on..........................
And finally if you are adding clackers, I'll say the list appears to be basically everything, although if thats important to you, maybe we should be consulted over the colour of the bags the pies come in?

How do they do that?

They have customer service, they receive feedback.

They have asked the club on this very forum. I wonder how many clubs do that?

They hold regular fans forums?

What else do you want?

A phone call once a week/month/year to every fan(customers) who go to the ground and spend there money?

Or maybe all fans who follow us, even if they live in Chile and who maybe only follow our results?

Who decides which fans are asked? Surely if its a very important issue like clackers on seats, it should be each and very one of us?

And you will see why I keep posting, if because I have to ask the same question over and over so here goes

Can you quote where the club have made this distinction between fans/customers? What context was it made in?

You're wasting your breath (metaphorically).

I am a FAN of Brighton and Hove Albion as a THING. But really, as soon as you purchase something of anything you become a customer of it. So I am both a fan and a customer of the club. Call me either. I am enjoying the ride.

And I think you probably speak for he majority of us.

 

[glasfryn]

So you honestly think Tony Bloom had nothing to do with it. You honestly believe a man who has £120 in the club, would allow a manager who he was worked closely to over the years, be removed from his position without his approval? Are you honestly saying that.




Can you not understand that they cannot say anything all the time the issue is ongoing?

How do you want them to be more transparent?

Would you prefer that they give daily updates on the exact details?

How do you want them to be more transparent?

Would you like to see Paul Barber sacked and Gus Poyet reinstated without knowing any facts?

How do you want them to be more transparent?

You said that, You want them to be more transparent. Tell us in what way?

I don't know you tell me you are the one who said "Tony Bloom got rid of Poyet" you are the one trying to give the impression that you are in the know
let me say just this you are one of the very sad list of those that love to give that impression that you know something when in actual fact you know diddly squat just like the rest of us who would love to know whats happening but must wait until the club suddenly and mystically become transparent.
I respect Tony Bloom for what he has done and how far he has taken this club along with a good manager who got us to 4th last season 2 wins instead of 2 draws and we would have made it to the premiership.
anything else is guff
don't bother to answer as you are now on my ever lengthening ignore list

 

[Brighton Breezy]

If you look on the Paul Barber interview thread I just started, he talks about this comment again.

 

[drew]

I don't know you tell me you are the one who said "Tony Bloom got rid of Poyet" you are the one trying to give the impression that you are in the know
let me say just this you are one of the very sad list of those that love to give that impression that you know something when in actual fact you know diddly squat just like the rest of us who would love to know whats happening but must wait until the club suddenly and mystically become transparent.
I respect Tony Bloom for what he has done and how far he has taken this club along with a good manager who got us to 4th last season 2 wins instead of 2 draws and we would have made it to the premiership.
anything else is guff
don't bother to answer as you are now on my ever lengthening ignore list

What a pathetic comment. Most people would take that sentence in the context it was meant, ie that any suspension would almost certainly have had the blessing of the man who actually owns the club unless PB is looking for his own dismissal. Ignoring the almost certain fact that TB authorised the suspension is like standing on a railway track in the face of an express train and your solution is to stick your fingers in your ear and shout ding a ling a ling out very loud. But of course, you didn't.