[News] There's no need to panic buy petrol

[drew]

I don't believe so, I think what we have learnt from the last few days is that the industry has been warning that this has been coming for a number of years and the Government has totally ignored it.
Here's an FT article predicting it 5 months ago. Maybe the Government should appoint a Minister with responsibility for checking the news

Industry associations and leading UK freight companies said that unless urgent steps were taken to address shortages, strains now visible within the industry would become evident to the public by the end of the summer.

While the sector has endured chronic driver shortages in recent decades, these have become acute thanks to a “triple whammy” of Brexit ending recruitment from the EU, a backlog of driving tests caused by Covid-19 and self-employment tax reforms that have exacerbated the outflow of EU drivers.

“Britain has had a chronic driver shortage for many years, but the problem is now acute. In 10 years of campaigning on this issue we have never seen members as concerned as they are now,” said Alex Veitch, policy manager at Logistics UK, the trade body that was formerly the Freight Transport Association.

https://www.ft.com/content/4d6b3be1-627e-4784-afc5-91da326cabdc

It was hardly Mystic Meg territory was it

Thank god, clearly the blame for this whole episode can be switched from the BBC to the FT!

 

[drew]

I don’t doubt it. Running the country is a tough job..:unlike complaining about it.

Thank god, for a minute I thought this was an issue the government could have done something about. Once again the general pubic will willingly shoulder the blame.

 

[Wardy's twin]

and no wheels to go anywhere


It is a private industry issue . . . . nothing to do with governement really, althougfh the underlaying issues are another subject entirely.

it's not a private industry issue though is it because the consequences are widespread affecting industry as a whole and threatening to cause public disorder. In the current climate petrol, water, gas , electricity and dare i say it telecoms are key to the society we live in. Yes there are times when we had none of these and still lived but the economy has moved on - not saying its right or wrong - but without these things society begins to breakdown. Yes we can change (and we should ) but you have to evolve not just remove fundamental building blocks.

yes people are exacerbating (causing?) the problem and that's because we are a selfish, aggressive species and if it weren't for for rules and structure (government) life would still be 'nasty, brutish and short' .

The government is at fault , they have an issue with the RHA who predicted driver shortages post BREXIT and the government is choosing to put its head up its arse and say there is not a problem saying there is fuel in the refineries and storage but ignoring that the petrol stations are running out There is a problem, deal with it.

I went to the garage in Warren Road , Woodingdean at 19:00 (my first visit since crisis started) and it was absolute mayhem with main road blocked , cars overtaking on wrong side of road (at speed) and people pushing in the queue and shouting at each other I was pleasantly surprised that there were no actual fights.

Going back to the issue with the RHA , yes they might have been dependent on foreign lorry drivers but that's because of the integration built up over 50 years, where were they getting replacements from. There is a bigger issue , we are educating people out of doing blue collar jobs .

 

[Jello Biafra]

Wasn't going to make it home with the fuel in the tank tonight. Got to the first BP garage and it was closed with a yellow sold out clipped to every hose. A mile down the road and the esso was busier than normal but there were two pumps free. Parked up only to notice the yellow swing tickets on the unleaded hose. A quick glance around the forecourt and I noticed every unleaded hose had the same big yellow swing ticket. Was disappointed as I lifted the £1.47 a litre premium hose but it had to be done. Just in time I noticed all the yellow swing tickets were actually warnings about E10 petrol. About as well timed as face recognition technology being introduced when we all started wearing masks. Ended up filling the tank cheaper than usual.

Which garage was this?

 

[Jello Biafra]

I don’t doubt it. Running the country is a tough job..:unlike complaining about it.

The current government certainly make it look like a completely impossible task beyond the wit of all human understanding.

 

[Bry Nylon]

By pure luck, I managed to get fuel last night when I arrived at petrol station that had just re-opened following a tanker delivery but when I put the nozzle in the tank nothing came out.
I waved at the bloke in the kiosk and shouted, "Have you got your pumps on?"
"Not today," he shouted. "I'm wearing flip flops."

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Thank god, for a minute I thought this was an issue the government could have done something about. Once again the general pubic will willingly shoulder the blame.

Like a lot of things in life it is a lot more complicated than that. The Oil companies, Government, the media, Eastern European lorry drivers returning home, Covid, lorry driver pay and conditions, the general public. Just coming on here constantly blaming one thing is not to be taken seriously, particularly when a lorry driver has taken the trouble to start another thread and outlined all the factors as he sees them. Try to see that the Government shouldering blame for their part in it does not preclude the public etc also taking responsibility. A hard core on here won’t do that.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

I'm not sure.

Whether I...

- fill up once a month, when I'm pretty much empty, or
- top up every week from 3/4 to full

...I'm buying the same volume of fuel.

It's consumption that really makes the difference, once the initial crazy period is over, and I'd expect consumption to be down, not up. Many people will be making small adjustments to their behaviour - maybe not undertaking longer drives - postponing them for another time, or being a bit more aware of how they are driving, trying to be more efficient.

Some maybe , but not sure about many . Have we not already heard , even on this thread , about people wasting fuel sitting in queues or driving round on expeditions looking for fuel or even driving their kid 800 metres to school ?
All in all i dread to think how much this whole business has wasted and the effect on climate etc . Indeed if one of the modifications to peoples behaviour is to drive around with a 3/4 full or more tank at all times surely this alone will have an effect on consumption as it must cost more and use more fuel to have to constantly transport that reserve around with you .

 

[dsr-burnley]

Some maybe , but not sure about many . Have we not already heard , even on this thread , about people wasting fuel sitting in queues or driving round on expeditions looking for fuel or even driving their kid 800 metres to school ?
All in all i dread to think how much this whole business has wasted and the effect on climate etc . Indeed if one of the modifications to peoples behaviour is to drive around with a 3/4 full or more tank at all times surely this alone will have an effect on consumption as it must cost more and use more fuel to have to constantly transport that reserve around with you .

If you you assume the average person fills up when the tank gets down to 20%, then that's an average of 60% of a tank of petrol in normal times. Say 6 gallons in a 12 gallon tank. So if they go up to say 10 gallons average because they fill up when it gets down to 8 gallons, they are carrying an extra 4 gallons.

4 gallons of petrol weighs 2 stone. For context, a car weighs 200 stone, so it's an extra 1% weight. Or put another way, the effect on fuel consumption is the less than the effect of carrying a small child plus paraphernalia. It's a cost, but not enough to worry anyone.

 

[B-right-on]

What are the parts of the country you are referring to? Would be interested to see if the areas with no queues correlate with areas of low population density rather than 'people being made of sterner stuff'.

Got a mate who lives in Salford and as a sales rep, travels all over the area and has not had any problems filling up or closed stations.

 

[Recidivist]

Beats me why service stations can’t do what the supermarkets did early on in the pandemic and have specific times when only key workers could fill up.

Have to be quite limited to, for example, NHS workers or similar who have ID but it seemed to work pretty well then.

Don’t think many people would argue about this section of the community getting priority.

I find it incredible that Boris doesn’t seem to care about key workers and clearly wants to bury his head in the sand and hope it all sorts itself out on its own (or maybe I shouldn’t?)!


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[peterward]

Got a mate who lives in Salford and as a sales rep, travels all over the area and has not had any problems filling up or closed stations.

Loads of closed stations around, first time I went looking for the Mrs, went to 11 stations without fuel or coned off until found some..... Had to go to London yesterday from Midlands and whilst expensive the M1 services are all open with no queues.

If you get stuck the major services are pretty unaffected even if they are going to fleece you about 15-20p per litre or £10-£12 per tank

 

[zefarelly]

Seen more than a few posts on here like yours about the situation being better elsewhere , do i believe them - yes i do . It has been suggested that this is possibly due to population density , affluence etc but i am more inclined to go with your second reasoning about community spirit .
There is very little doubt in my mind that the majority in the south east are extremely selfish , arrogant , pompous , me first , twits of the highest order !
Very quick to point the finger but low on responsibility . Indeed if i didn't love the county of sussex so much i would have moved long ago .

me too. Sad isn't it.

 

[zefarelly]

It is, but private industry isn't very good at dealing with very sudden changes to it's labour market. HGV drivers aren't the only sector dealing with a sudden loss of workforce, construction industry is taking a big hit too.

Typically supply and demand stretches out over a longer time period, thereby wages for a sector gradually rises to compensate for shortages with costs rising to cover that and budgets amending with costs passed on and so forth. We're currently faced with needing to train and create newly qualified people to fill the positions, again takes time, and this is something the government could have prepared for because some of the problem is simply getting the training done, or getting newly qualified drivers their papers to hand.

A haulage company can't just slap a 25% payrise on everyone and not have that covered in the fees it charges, it perhaps can take part of the hit, but not all of it. We'll be paying for it at some point at the pumps and on the shelves along with the % duties to be added.

Agreed. As for paying for it, we already are.

 

[keaton]

I would imagine army HGV drivers are on an army pay scale. They can’t double (and more) army pay to accommodate competition with general lorry driver pay. As always you have to take into account many factors when managing anything. It is easy to sit on the sidelines and pick apart one thing without having the responsibility for the unintended consequences. Didn’t this all begin with BP and others in dispute with their drivers over pay ? Much easier to blame the Government though.

Much like the government are blaming others by picking apart others even though it's not that simple. So you'd agree they're hypocrites

 

[Brighton & Love]

Seen more than a few posts on here like yours about the situation being better elsewhere , do i believe them - yes i do . It has been suggested that this is possibly due to population density , affluence etc but i am more inclined to go with your second reasoning about community spirit .
There is very little doubt in my mind that the majority in the south east are extremely selfish , arrogant , pompous , me first , twits of the highest order !
Very quick to point the finger but low on responsibility . Indeed if i didn't love the county of sussex so much i would have moved long ago .

Very much agreed. Fear has ripped through our communities and replaced the togetherness with paranoia. Everyone who grabbed more petrol than they needed over the last week were doing so out of fear of people similar to themselves. That's the state we're now in.

 

[B-right-on]

Beats me why service stations can’t do what the supermarkets did early on in the pandemic and have specific times when only key workers could fill up.

Have to be quite limited to, for example, NHS workers or similar who have ID but it seemed to work pretty well then.

Don’t think many people would argue about this section of the community getting priority.

I find it incredible that Boris doesn’t seem to care about key workers and clearly wants to bury his head in the sand and hope it all sorts itself out on its own (or maybe I shouldn’t?)!


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The BP /M&S along Hove seafront and Texaco in Shoreham town centre closed to general public when they were 'low' but if you worked for the NHS you could fill up since last Monday for definite, might have been before. A mates Mrs is a Paramedic and she has been able to get fuel for her car and the Ambulance with zero issues.

As an aside, I heard a tanker driver talk on a phone in, on the Jeremy Slime show on Monday. He said tanker drivers get paid less than food delivery drivers and 'several' of his colleagues had left to go and work for Tesco and Sainsburys. Its not as if petroleum companies are poor, pay your bloody drivers more and then they wouldn't have such a bad issue. But it's all about profits for the shareholders. I'm a capitalist but this 'shareholder profit driven philosophy' really gets my goat.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I'm not sure.

Whether I...

- fill up once a month, when I'm pretty much empty, or
- top up every week from 3/4 to full

...I'm buying the same volume of fuel.

It's consumption that really makes the difference, once the initial crazy period is over, and I'd expect consumption to be down, not up. Many people will be making small adjustments to their behaviour - maybe not undertaking longer drives - postponing them for another time, or being a bit more aware of how they are driving, trying to be more efficient.

the amount of fuel is only part of the issue and is probably not a problem if you believe the government. The main issue is the vast increase in demand put on fuel the stations by repeat and unnecessary visits causing queues. Its no different to people hitting the refresh button when a system is slow .

make it a minimum spend of £30... if you don't use all the fuel its still costs you £30..

 

[Justice]

According to the Boris list of Key workers electricians are up there and have been there all through the pandemic think I could get special privileges at the fuel station. Keyworker needs dropped for NHS staff.

 

[sparkie]

the amount of fuel is only part of the issue and is probably not a problem if you believe the government. The main issue is the vast increase in demand put on fuel the stations by repeat and unnecessary visits causing queues. Its no different to people hitting the refresh button when a system is slow .

make it a minimum spend of £30... if you don't use all the fuel its still costs you £30..

Unless these repeat garage visitors are actually driving more than usual then by now they won't be taking anymore fuel out of the system than normal ?