The saved penalty [video]

[Hornblower]

Just seen the penalty on seagulls player, much better view - A F@@KING DREADFUL penatly..

Absolutely this. Those of you who (like me) only had the benefit of some mobile footage may have been persuaded that Barnes struck it well. SP shows it differently, he struck it weakly and he also perofrmed the stuttering run-up which I have a personal hatred of - looks great when you score but looks double-naff when you don't.

Equally, he was slow to rebound and fluffed that.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It is absolutely possible to send the keeper the wrong way, using your body shape. I'm not a particularly talented footballer, but I took the pens for years for my various clubs, finishing with a record of 22 from 24. (I was 20 from 20, but messed it up trying to be clever!).

Most of my penalties, in terms of how well struck they were, were not as good as Barnes' last night*, but as people have said, that part isn't relevant if you've fooled the keeper.


I do think Barnes was unlucky last night though, regardless. That pen is probably going in at least 7 times out of 10. In general 8 from 10 (80% success rate) is a good penalty record for a footballer. Players like Le Tiss or Alexander really are the exceptions.


*Nor were they taken a. in front of 26,000 people or b. against Kasper Schmeicel!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Absolutely this. Those of you who (like me) only had the benefit of some mobile footage may have been persuaded that Barnes struck it well. SP shows it differently, he struck it weakly and he also perofrmed the stuttering run-up which I have a personal hatred of - looks great when you score but looks double-naff when you don't.

Equally, he was slow to rebound and fluffed that.

I haven't seen the footage yet (apart from once on SSN last night). Was Barnes not fouled going for the follow up? Would have been brave refereeing, but could have been another penalty, and possibly a red card.

 

[Mellotron]

1:10 in, take 10 like that in either corner and I reckon you would be ok:

Shearer Penalty - Argentina v England - World Cup 98 - YouTube

Anyway, penalties are just one of our problems at the mo.

Right, you see what you've done there, is post a video of a top international striker, who at the time was probably one of the top 5 penalty takers in the WORLD.

We are BRIGHTON AND HOVE ALBION, a mostly lower league side.

This is why people are getting pissed off with the unrealistic expectations on here.

 

[Hornblower]

I haven't seen the footage yet (apart from once on SSN last night). Was Barnes not fouled going for the follow up? Would have been brave refereeing, but could have been another penalty, and possibly a red card.

I think he got to the ball nano-seconds before he was fouled and so would have skyed it in any case. That said he was definitely fouled.

 

[Mr Burns]

But what is the factor which leaves you short of saying 10 out of 10? Thats my point. Saying the player should NEVER have one saved is bonkers.

Point A) By 'guess' I clearly meant go the right way, whether it be guess or through research or through reading the angle of the run up.

On the second point there are more than 2 possible destinations for the ball to aim at, which is why it's not 50/50. I would say you can rougly break the goal into 5 areas. Bottom/top right/left and centre.

The belief that a penalty should never be missed is bonkers. Even if fired top corner there is still the chance the keeper can go there. The greatest player in the world will miss if the keeper has gone the correct way. It doesn't matter how good you are.

Of course, there have been the examples of players never missing, but they wern't all top corner thunderbolts. It would only have taken a keeper to have gone the right way ONCE for Le Tissier or Gary Alexander or Rickie Lambert's records to read 'penalty missed'

Sorry. Reading that I'll stick with my opinion you do not know what you are talking about, and I really can't be bothered to discuss it with you.

Two glaring things I just have to pick you up on though,

When you said Guess the right way, it clearly meant guess. If you meant go, type go, its a much shorter word and takes less finger work. I cannot guess what you mean by guess, so when you say guess, I take it you mean guess

Secondly I said the player should score 9 out of ten. And yer, I guess they should never have on saved. But no one is perfect, which is why I say overall it should be about 9 out of 10. Whether they miss the target or the keeper saves it, neither really should happen in a championship game.

For you to say even if the ball is fired in the top corner the keeper can still go there, is what makes me think you dont know what you are talking about. If you don't understand why I say that, it aint worth me explaining it to you. Sorry I don't mean to be mean or belittle you, but so much of what you have said there is complete garbage.

"It would only have taken a keeper to have gone the right way ONCE for Le Tissier or Gary Alexander or Rickie Lambert's records to read 'penalty missed'" Really? Did you really mean to say that

 

[drew]

It's not entirely clear from the vid but was the defender in the box at the time the penalty was struck and therefore encroaching?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Was Barnes not fouled going for the follow up? Would have been brave refereeing, but could have been another penalty, and possibly a red card.

I think so.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Sorry. Reading that I'll stick with my opinion you do not know what you are talking about, and I really can't be bothered to discuss it with you.

Two glaring things I just have to pick you up on though,

When you said Guess the right way, it clearly meant guess. If you meant go, type go, its a much shorter word and takes less finger work. I cannot guess what you mean by guess, so when you say guess, I take it you mean guess

Secondly I said the player should score 9 out of ten. And yer, I guess they should never have on saved. But no one is perfect, which is why I say overall it should be about 9 out of 10. Whether they miss the target or the keeper saves it, neither really should happen in a championship game.

For you to say even if the ball is fired in the top corner the keeper can still go there, is what makes me think you dont know what you are talking about. If you don't understand why I say that, it aint worth me explaining it to you. Sorry I don't mean to be mean or belittle you, but so much of what you have said there is complete garbage.

"It would only have taken a keeper to have gone the right way ONCE for Le Tissier or Gary Alexander or Rickie Lambert's records to read 'penalty missed'" Really? Did you really mean to say that

For once we were having a normal discussion and you again resort to just being an arse, Thats the most abusive I'll get. I still don't want to argue as it ruins the threads, but I don't get how you can claim you don't want to discuss and then write many many paragraphs...

On the 'guess' you wrote this "When you said Guess the right way, it clearly meant guess. If you meant go, type go, its a much shorter word and takes less finger work. I cannot guess what you mean by guess, so when you say guess, I take it you mean guess :nono

In football the commentary will often say "The keeper guessed the right way" It's just a phrase. There was absolutely no need to pick up on that point.

On this point "For you to say even if the ball is fired in the top corner the keeper can still go there, is what makes me think you dont know what you are talking about. If you don't understand why I say that, it aint worth me explaining it to you. Sorry I don't mean to be mean or belittle you, but so much of what you have said there is complete garbage" - Of course a keeper can dive to the top corner. It's UNLIKELY yes, But it can happen. That's all I stated. Again, no need to argue that point.

And finally this "Secondly I said the player should score 9 out of ten. And yer, I guess they should never have on saved. But no one is perfect, which is why I say overall it should be about 9 out of 10. Whether they miss the target or the keeper saves it, neither really should happen in a championship game." - Again, all I said was the statement that a player SHOULD score 10 out of 10 is ridiculous as no one is perfect and the keeper is a factor. Here you have repeated my exact point by the 9 out of 10 stat.

I don't get why you are arguing with me even when I am not attempting to rile you in any way. I've tried to answer your various points clearly as I feel you are being picky to make a point.

 

[Acker79]

With the right starting position, the right reaction no shot to any area of the goal is unsave-able. Some may be less likely to b saved, but not impossible.

With keepers allowed to move on the line, the right starting position is easier to find.

Of course it's a guess. Unless the player taking the penalty tells the keeper which direction to go, it is a guess. A guess based on probability, research or attempts at mind games, but a guess nonetheless. It is an attempt to predict an outcome.

To expect an outfield professional to be able to score 100% of penalties, while not expecting anything of a professional goalkeeper is just illogical. To be a professional you need to be better than average, you need to be able to show skills and abilities above that which an amateur can show. For a professional this means saving shots, yes even from 12 yards. Last night, Celtic's keeper saved a shot from messi from point blank range, so why shouldn't a professional keeper be able to stop a shot from 12 yards?

Penalties are sometimes mind games. A keeper giving more space one side, moving to one side when the player runs up only to dive the other way. Penalty takers looking the other direction to where they will shoot. Both know this, so it becomes a question of bluff/double bluff. Will you kick the side I've given more space to because you think I'm diving on the narrow side, etc.

Even the best strikers will struggle to put the ball in exactly the same place every time (Messi has missed penalties, not every Beckham freekick was on target). Aiming for the top corner every time (apart from being predictable, and making it easier for a keeper to prepare and react and thus get to) will result in missing.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

With the right starting position, the right reaction no shot to any area of the goal is unsave-able. Some may be less likely to b saved, but not impossible.

With keepers allowed to move on the line, the right starting position is easier to find.

Of course it's a guess. Unless the player taking the penalty tells the keeper which direction to go, it is a guess. A guess based on probability, research or attempts at mind games, but a guess nonetheless. It is an attempt to predict an outcome.

To expect an outfield professional to be able to score 100% of penalties, while not expecting anything of a professional goalkeeper is just illogical. To be a professional you need to be better than average, you need to be able to show skills and abilities above that which an amateur can show. For a professional this means saving shots, yes even from 12 yards. Last night, Celtic's keeper saved a shot from messi from point blank range, so why shouldn't a professional keeper be able to stop a shot from 12 yards?

Penalties are sometimes mind games. A keeper giving more space one side, moving to one side when the player runs up only to dive the other way. Penalty takers looking the other direction to where they will shoot. Both know this, so it becomes a question of bluff/double bluff. Will you kick the side I've given more space to because you think I'm diving on the narrow side, etc.

Even the best strikers will struggle to put the ball in exactly the same place every time (Messi has missed penalties, not every Beckham freekick was on target). Aiming for the top corner every time (apart from being predictable, and making it easier for a keeper to prepare and react and thus get to) will result in missing.

Thank god. Someone with sense.

 

[Mr Burns]

Of course a keeper can dive to the top corner. It's UNLIKELY yes, But it can happen. That's all I stated. Again, no need to argue that point.

I think there is every need to argue that point, as it a ridiculous statement. Show me a penalty save where the keeper has dived to the top corner to save it, and I'll show you a shit penalty.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I think there is every need to argue that point, as it a ridiculous statement. Show me a penalty save where the keeper has dived to the top corner to save it, and I'll show you a shit penalty.

I didn't say that did I. You have taken my words and made a new statment. I never said a penalty in the top corner has been saved.

All I said was ITS NOT IMPOSSIBLE. Which it clearly isn't.

Your suggesting a keeper CANT physichally reach the top corner? Really?

I suggest you read the above post by Acker79 and stop arguing basic statements.

I also suggest you learn to read the statment first before jumping into your answer. You learn that at GCSE.

 

[Mr Burns]

With the right starting position, the right reaction no shot to any area of the goal is unsave-able.

I stopped reading there, because you are simply wrong. If a penatly is taken correctly, it is unsavable. Period.

For whats its worth, I am not having a go at Barnes here, because I except him to miss some. I don't rate him as you know, so do not except him to get close to 9 out of 10 let alone 10 out of 10.

But on that mate. You are simply incorrect. If a penatly is hit right, it doesn't get saved.

 

[Mr Burns]

I didn't say that did I. You have taken my words and made a new statment. I never said a penalty in the top corner has been saved.

All I said was ITS NOT IMPOSSIBLE. Which it clearly isn't.

Your suggesting a keeper CANT physichally reach the top corner? Really?

I suggest you read the above post by Acker79 and stop arguing basic statements.

I also suggest you learn to read the statment first before jumping into your answer. You learn that at GCSE.

I suggest you understand football first. You can't learn that out of a book.

So your argument was what? Its not impossible but its never happened. Why mention it then?

Its not impossible for a team to score an own goal from their own corner. But its never happened, so why would I ever mention it.

It's not impossible for a goalkeeper to take and score direct from a kick off. But its never happened, so why would you ever mention it?

Off course a goalkeeper can reach the top corner. It's not impossible, but as you said, it never happens, so why try and base an argument on this?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I stopped reading there, because you are simply wrong. If a penatly is taken correctly, it is unsavable. Period.
.

Research from David Kerwin, professor of sport and exercise biomechanics at the University of Bath concluded no penalty, even when kicked into the 28% 'unsaveable' zone of the goal is unsaveable as the keeper is allowed to move before the kick is taken.

All that is being stated is it's not IMPOSSIBLE. You are stating it IS impossible.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I suggest you understand football first. You can't learn that out of a book.

So your argument was what? Its not impossible but its never happened. Why mention it then?

Its not impossible for a team to score an own goal from their own corner. But its never happened, so why would I ever mention it.

It's not impossible for a goalkeeper to take and score direct from a kick off. But its never happened, so why would you ever mention it?

Off course a goalkeeper can reach the top corner. It's not impossible, but as you said, it never happens, so why try and base an argument on this?

Because we were talking about what is IMPOSSIBLE. not LOGICAL.

If someone said "an own goal cant be scored from a corner" then I'd argue it.

If someone says "the keeper cant save a top corner pen" then i'd argue it.

It's quite simple.

Your trying to make issues from very basic statements.

 

[Mr Burns]

Because we were talking about what is IMPOSSIBLE. not LOGICAL.

If someone said "an own goal cant be scored from a corner" then I'd argue it.

If someone says "the keeper cant save a top corner pen" then i'd argue it.

It's quite simple.

Your trying to make issues from very basic statements.

Whatever. You're just playing with words now, and I can't be arsed with it.

You have proved in this thread alone, that you know f*** all about football, but like to try and join in when people try and discuss it. Well done.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Anyone else think Schmeical could have been sent off after the pen for his both feet off the floor lunge at Barnes?
Or just Me?

 

[supaseagull]

I'm a Barnes fan.

It was a shit penalty.

CMS should have taken it.

End of thread.