[Politics] The NSC 'up all night' election night *** OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD ***

[Cheshire Cat]

What's also fun is that you can go from Eastbourne to North Devon through only Lib Dem ones.

Reform, however, are an evolutionary dead end, isolated in their little enclaves growing six fingers on each hand

 

[Eeyore]

So Labour have gone from significant defeat to landslide victory on roughly the same numbers. This to me, is another reason why we need to get rid of FPTP.

Well this is my point....

The Labour Party say they have changed and have been given a mandate to govern. What great work Starmer has done

Jeremy Corbyn was firmly rejected by the electorate in 2019.

Yet both got similar percentages and Corbyn got more votes

I'm actually laughing now.

 

[chickens]

It largely depends on who the Tories put up next, although there's no guarantee whoever succeeds Sunak will make it all the way to the next General Election.

One of last night's pundits suggested that we have become increasingly presidential with our politics, allowing those with big personalities (not a euphemism) to come to the fore.

It's difficult to see that someone like Jeremy Hunt - generally calm, measured and, politics aside, quite Starmer like in the way he goes about his business - would make much of a dent if Starmer has a good (first) term in office.

It’s interesting isn’t it? I fear that with so many moderate Conservatives losing their seats while “culture war” Conservatives kept theirs that the Conservative Party future looks more Suella Braverman than Jeremy Hunt.

Having said that, economically, Braverman is “full Truss” rather than Sunak, and the electorate has already rejected Trussenomics.

What I find most interesting is that with this tilt towards libertarianism, original libertarianism had ample provision for the less well off, to make a far more “utopian” society. The first thing US and British “libertarian” politicians have done is strip that part of libertarianism away. In that sense they’ve very much created a perfect mirror image of communism/socialism, which also started “all are equal” and famously ended “some are more equal than others.”

Effectively, both left and right offer the same thing. The horseshoe is real, and those least likely to speak out against their treatment get f***ed either way.

 

[TomandJerry]

Turnout at the general election is on track to be the lowest for more than 20 years, the PA news agency reports.

After 649 of 650 results had been declared, the turnout figure stood at 59.8%, a sharp decline from an overall turnout of 67.3% at the last election in 2019.

It is also the worst turnout at a general election since 2001, when the figure slumped to 59.4%: the lowest since before the second world war.

The highest turnout at a general election since the war was 83.9% in 1950, according to figures compiled by the House of Commons Library.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All PR would have done would have massively increased the number of Reform MPs.
They would have gained 100 MPs.
Most of their candidates are only interested in a single policy and the next 5 years would be spent arguing about immigration and little else.
There are bigger problems to sort out.

For once Conservatives and LD got a number of MPs similar to their share of the electorate.
I'm happy with that.

I don’t have an issue with any party getting the seats they are due.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Labour won by the rules. Your analogy is poor because that isn't the rules in football.

The only way to change the system is to get enough MPs to agree to change the system. Find out which party supports PR, and vote for them.

Agree. Labour played a great game in accordance with the FPTP rules of the game. A football analogy is like us going on about the Albions high possession stats, xG stats etc. All very interesting but pretty irrelevant when we’ve lost the match.

 

[A1X]

 

[Machiavelli]

Got to say, it's an absolutely cracking election for the Lib Dems

 

[A1X]

Got to say, it's an absolutely cracking election for the Lib Dems

Astonishingly every single Lib Dem MP on the date the election was called is still an MP, including the ones who won the by-elections in the last Parliament in true blue seats

 

[BN41Albion]

All PR would have done would have massively increased the number of Reform MPs.
They would have gained 100 MPs.
Most of their candidates are only interested in a single policy and the next 5 years would be spent arguing about immigration and little else.
There are bigger problems to sort out.

For once Conservatives and LD got a number of MPs similar to their share of the electorate.
I'm happy with that.

PR would surely have meant thousands and thousands of folk voting differently, so directly making comparisons between the two falls flat. So many people vote tactically because of FPTP, so whilst we can make educated guesses we don't know how a PR election would have looked

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree he could have done more to root out antisemitism in the party (although again I think this is largely a myth - didn't the official investigation find it was almost non-existent?). He certainly should have been more unequivocal when he was questioned about it, and this did him no favours.

Indeed. A good man, and a good politician but a weak and indecisive leader. I was furious with him back in the day for not doing small simple things to make everything right, WRT antisemitism. I didn't mind him as a troublesome back bencher at all. Voting against his own part on matters of principle, that his constituency supported, is honourable. But when you become leader you must lead to succeed. Alas....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I am completely lost on what you are talking about to be honest.

This may be a three drink problem, best explored in a quiet beer garden. I struggle with 'email' type correspondence and elaborating will sadly probably just annoy you more. I don't wish to do that.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I appreciate your response and I wish I could remember what he said. It certainly wasn't solely about his support for any side but just something that crossed a red line. But from that moment, at which I envisaged voting Labour, I just couldn't anymore. I think it was a lack of compassion in him rather than a policy ideal.

I spoiled my ballot paper yesterday with an attempt at usual humour (my vote for Jackie Weaver in 2021 made the nation news). I do this every election now because I feel that this country is still governed by headlines and the influence of money.

I used to visit the polling booth chest pumped with a sense of pride and importance as an equal citizen determining the future direction of my nation. I now visit as a token pawn in the games of the media, big business, errant political overlords and Mr Gallup and Mrs Mori.

I'm very sorry to read that. I am hopeful that over the next few years Starmer may surprise you in a pleasing way.

As an aside, and related to other conversations, there seems to be an assumption by some that the Greens and Liberals (or, if you are right wing, Farage) have something noble and better (than Tory and Labour) on offer, and therefore.....the public are too (something - scared, brainwashed, stupid?) to realize this and vote for them. This may be the case. The alternative is that they are simply insufficiently persuasive. Or wrong. Or both. I can't decide which is the right answer to this question. Perhaps I never will.

 

[armchairclubber]

Are the Independent pro Hamas MPs going to sit alongside Corbyn ?

More pertinently, where will this little shitweasel be sitting and how long before he's found a place on the Labour front bench?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

PR would surely have meant thousands and thousands of folk voting differently, so directly making comparisons between the two falls flat. So many people vote tactically because of FPTP, so whilst we can make educated guesses we don't know how a PR election would have looked

I agree it may have made a difference to Lib dems, but it wouldn't have affected Reform or the conservatives.
There was no tactical voting for reform voters

 

[TomandJerry]

In this election, seven seats were won by fewer than 100 votes. In Hendon the majority was just 15.

Labour candidate David Pinto-Duschinsky had tried - and failed - to win the seat before. After a recount, he won with 15,855 votes. Ameet Jogia of the Conservatives had 15,840.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I don’t have an issue with any party getting the seats they are due.

That's an odd way to look at it.
All parties did get the seats they were due.
FPTP is a method focussed on 650 elections.
The winners of each election (are supposed to) represent their constituents.

In your opinion PR is fairer.
Fair enough. It's a very simplistic argument though.
I would certainly agree it would be much fairer in American Presidential elections.

Jeremy Corbyn would have been pissing in the wind (even more so) by standing as an independent.
He simply couldn't have gained enough votes to be re-elected to parliament.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The MPs who hoovered up the muslim vote to oust the Labour candidate.

I don't think there are any are there?

I believe the other Independents are Northern Ireland MPs.
Various flavours of Unionists predominantly.
Traditional Unionist Voice was one (NI Reform) - They beat Ian Paisley Jr.

 

[armchairclubber]

Jeremy Corbyn would have been pissing in the wind (even more so) by standing as an independent.
He simply couldn't have gained enough votes to be re-elected to parliament.

Not quite following on this point. Could you explain a little more?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Protesting by spoiling the ballot paper is really the most utterly pointless exercise in self-aggrandisement.

Your vote for Count Wankula wont bring about change. The only person who will even see it is Susan, who normally works in the HR department at the council, while she moves your ballot into the "oh aren't they clever" pile.

Hilarious but wrong.