[Politics] The NSC 'up all night' election night *** OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD ***

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Who are these MPs who are pro Hamas

Or do you mean Pro Gaza or Pro Palestine and obviously don't understand the difference

The MPs who hoovered up the muslim vote to oust the Labour candidate.

 

[pb21]

What an INCREDIBLE tantrum

It's interesting he talks about monetary policy post Bretton Woods.

I think he might well be on to something in that regard, implications of these policy changes take decades to come out in the wash and the cycle might be ending...

 

[Weststander]

Hilary Benn is in … I like him.

And how many MP’s can say they literally climbed Mount Everest?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

BBC start discussing electoral reform, jump straight to Party List that nobody wants or advocates.

Bloody typical.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If Albion beat a team 3-2 but the other side were awarded the match 2-1 on the basis that their goals came in two different quarters and Albion's in just one you wouldn't be happy. You would say Albion won fair and square. But that is what you have in our electoral system.

No offence, but this is a terrible analogy.

It is actually more like a team who have ground out ten very narrow wins, sitting top of the league above a team who have won half as many games, 5 or 6 nil.

They are rightly top, despite scoring less goals - as those are the competition RULES.

 

[McTavish]

I wonder when it was last possible to walk from Brighton to the Scottish border without going through a Tory constituency?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I wonder when it was last possible to walk from Brighton to the Scottish border without going through a Tory constituency?

If that's true it's an incredible stat, and I'm sure the answer could well be 'never' as Brighton has always been surrounded by blue in my lifetime.

 

[Guinness Boy]

No offence, but this is a terrible analogy.

It is actually more like a team who have ground out ten very narrow wins, sitting top of the league above a team who have won half as many games, 5 or 6 nil.

They are rightly top, despite scoring less goals - as those are the competition RULES.

Indeed.

Furthermore, if the competition stated that, instead, the team scoring the most goals would win irrespective of wins in individual games, everyone would play in a way that made early De Zerbi look like late era Hughton.

It's a very good evening for Labour and for anti-Tory, pro-progressive voters. A game played to win.

Unfortunately, it took something as horrific as the 2019-24 vintage Tory Party to unite first Labour and then the tactical vote. 2029 will be harder.

 

[jackalbion]

Just on the matter of timing, and without wishing to get bogged down in the specifics of this case, if a party doesn't think a candidate is suitable for any reason it shouldn't matter if it's the eve of the deadline, 6months before or 2years into the Parliament.

It seemed strategically timed to me, which in turn meant they lost the seat.

 

[Gabbiano]

I wonder when it was last possible to walk from Brighton to the Scottish border without going through a Tory constituency?

What's also fun is that you can go from Eastbourne to North Devon through only Lib Dem ones.

 

[chickens]

I had to turn over from the bbc because of her salivating over slating Labour all the time. Championing reform at every chance. Mocking Lib Dems. It was all a bit strange.

I think Sky and channel 4 had the best coverage. I kept having to switch from itv when Peston started - his style REALLY winds me up.

Channel 4 coverage was brilliant, I thankfully missed most of Dorries input, which just meant I was slightly better informed and happier than anyone who had to listen to it.

 

[McTavish]

If that's true it's an incredible stat, and I'm sure the answer could well be 'never' as Brighton has always been surrounded by blue in my lifetime.

It's definitely true. You have to go through Wales due to Kenilworth and Southam staying blue but it can be done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

Just looked up that the Tory party was started in 1679 so that might be the answer. Either that or 1832 - the year of The Reform Act.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Not 'of impacting the result' but voting differently because it would 'impact the result DIFFERENTLY'.

Our household of four would all have voted Labour under any form of PR. We all voted LibDem, in a close run local vote to oust the Tory.

There were IMO millions in a similar boat.

Assuming you're in Eastleigh, you can at least reasonably feel your votes made a difference because there wasn't a huge difference between the Conservative and Lib Dem vote.

Even there though, only 14,425 votes are actually reflected in the result (i.e. the Conservative vote + 1). About 68% of people could have stayed at home and it wouldn't have made any difference.*

It's not an "IMO" or an anecdotal thing. The system doesn't allow more than 50% of people's votes to be reflected in the result. In reality it's always much less than that.

We're entirely in the laps of the gods and the whims of people like Farage choosing whether or not to run candidates in particular seats, whether or not the system happens to spit out a result that looks even vaguely sensible. I've not worked out the actual numbers but I think Labour could have won the same number of seats with only about 30% of the national vote if they'd received fewer votes in safe seats.

*Obviously if that literally happened then all but one of the remaining Lib Dem voters could stay at home as well, but that's taking the logic through the looking glass.

 

[Papak]

Does anyone know if the Tories who had a punt actually won their wagers?

@Uncle Spielberg any ideas?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

It seemed strategically timed to me, which in turn meant they lost the seat.

Strategically timed on whose part? Surely they weren't deliberately aiming to make it harder for themselves to win the seat, which would be the only likely outcome of changing candidate at such short notice even if the circumstances were different.

 

[Eeyore]

Protesting by spoiling the ballot paper is really the most utterly pointless exercise in self-aggrandisement.

Your vote for Count Wankula wont bring about change. The only person who will even see it is Susan, who normally works in the HR department at the council, while she moves your ballot into the "oh aren't they clever" pile.

I do so because my view is that under the electoral system all votes are not equal and that the influences on government are dominated by bigger considerations than general population. You only had to look at Starmer's glowing pleasure at the endorsement of the scuzziest 'newspaper' on the planet. Of course, I'm sure he would like to have made a wanker sign and told them where to go but he can't. He needs them onside. You only have to look at 'Stop the boats' a desperate and crass attempt to appease the media.

Government by headlines.

So I spoil my ballot paper knowing it makes no difference and is just the little protest of an ageing man. I don't give a flying flamingo what Susan thinks, although I prefer to give the counter some light relief rather than writing an essay- which would be 'self-aggrandisement'

It doesn't make me feel important but it does make me feel better. And I fulfill what I feel is a duty to attend the polling station as a nod to those who fought for the right.

Large gap between vote share and MPs hits Reform and Greens

Labour's win is the most disproportionate on record, BBC Verify finds, as parties call for change.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Labour Party have not been given a mandate by the British people as 66% did not vote for them. As much as I'm pleased to see the Tories go and Reform get very few seats it changeth not my view.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

He didn’t stand against Boris because 1) he couldn’t compete with Boris on the popularity stakes with the right wing electorate and is ego wouldn’t let him play second fiddle. 2) UKIP were obsolete at that point.
This time round he had a niche with no competition because of the shit show that is the Tory party.
He’s not a king maker, he’s just very careful about the battles he picks. He’s either very clever or a coward. I suspect he’s both.

Either way - he can present himself as such to the Tories now.
They either align/merge with him or accept they need to move to a more centrist position and accept Reform are going to take even more votes from them.

With the majority of remaining Tory MPs being Brexiters/right leaning, i wouldn't be surprised if they merged.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Your vote for Count Wankula wont bring about change. The only person who will even see it is Susan, who normally works in the HR department at the council

It’s been a long night with no sleep. This is my favourite political insight of the past 36hrs.

 

[Gabbiano]

I do so because my view is that under the electoral system all votes are not equal and that the influences on government are dominated by bigger considerations than general population. You only had to look at Starmer's glowing pleasure at the endorsement of the scuzziest 'newspaper' on the planet. Of course, I'm sure he would like to have made a wanker sign and told them where to go but he can't. He needs them onside. You only have to look at 'Stop the boats' a desperate and crass attempt to appease the media.

Government by headlines.

So I spoil my ballot paper knowing it makes no difference and is just the little protest of an ageing man. I don't give a flying flamingo what Susan thinks, although I prefer to give the counter some light relief rather than writing an essay- which would be 'self-aggrandisement'

It doesn't make me feel important but it does make me feel better. And I fulfill what I feel is a duty to attend the polling station as a nod to those who fought for the right.

Large gap between vote share and MPs hits Reform and Greens

Labour's win is the most disproportionate on record, BBC Verify finds, as parties call for change.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Labour Party have not been given a mandate by the British people as 66% did not vote for them. As much as I'm pleased to see the Tories go and Reform get very few seats it changeth not my view.

But how does a vote for Larry the Cat tell anyone that you're protesting an unfair system?

If this is your key policy criteria then at the very least you should vote for a party pledging introduction of proportional representation.

If the choice is between a principled vote for a party that won't win, and a principled spoiled ballot which is completely meaningless, then at least the vote for a party demonstrates support for your key issue.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

So Labour have gone from significant defeat to landslide victory on roughly the same numbers. This to me, is another reason why we need to get rid of FPTP.

All PR would have done would have massively increased the number of Reform MPs.
They would have gained 100 MPs.
Most of their candidates are only interested in a single policy and the next 5 years would be spent arguing about immigration and little else.
There are bigger problems to sort out.

For once Conservatives and LD got a number of MPs similar to their share of the electorate.
I'm happy with that.