[Politics] The Labour Government

[Bozza]

I read his rant against the public sector as a whole not just the civil service. It’s vile.

Do you generally believe Starmer’s challenges to the civil service is of the same order of criticism as these little nuggets?

“Who pays who's wage? All of these arrogant little men and women across public sector leadership, working from home with their comfortable salary and generous pensions. Many of whom, do quite frankly sod all. I want to know - where is the accountability? Who do they answer to? Work with almost ANY part of the public sector - it's a joke. Long waits, massive delays, inept people. Nobody cares! They just don't care. There are good people, but they're drowned out by the overwhelming incompetence of their colleagues.”

A few things...

1. I'd not read Rupert Lowe's tirade before seeing it mentioned on this thread a few minutes ago.

2. I had no idea that Starmer had attacked the civil service in the manner he had. Much of my news consumption comes from 5Live between 6 and 7am when I'm traipsing across the Downs with the dog and a torch. Yout post triggered a memory of one of the Beeb's political correspondents, Zeffman or Mason presumably, recently talking about how unhappy many ministers were about the civil service.

So I went to search for that.

And, instead, I found the article about Starmer's speech.

So, no, I'm not going to give a response on whether they are of the same order - I've not seen Starmer's speech and at this time of night, I'm not going to rectify that now.

However, as part of that same bit of research, I noted that civil service unions were significantly less-than-happy at what Starmer had to say about their members, going so far as calling him "Trumpian". A Labour leader being compared to Donald Trump by a union leader is pretty remarkable, isn't it?

The head of the senior civil servants’ union has written to Keir Starmer urging him to rethink his “frankly insulting” criticism of Whitehall for being comfortable with falling standards.​

​

The general secretary of the FDA, the union for senior civil servants, suggested Starmer had invoked “Trumpian” language by claiming not to want to “drain the swamp” but having gone on to say that “too many people in Whitehall are comfortable in the tepid bath of managed decline”.​

​

Dave Penman told Starmer he feared it was “far more damaging than you had considered when you chose those words” after years of attacks on the civil service by previous governments had already harmed morale.​

​

The Guardian understands Starmer's speech suggesting civil servants are partly to blame for blocking reform in public services and Whitehall has made even some of his own ministers uncomfortable.​

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-criticism-civil-servants-whitehall-trumpian

 

[Bozza]

A few things...

1. I'd not read Rupert Lowe's tirade before seeing it mentioned on this thread a few minutes ago.

2. I had no idea that Starmer had attacked the civil service in the manner he had. Much of my news consumption comes from 5Live between 6 and 7am when I'm traipsing across the Downs with the dog and a torch. Yout post triggered a memory of one of the Beeb's political correspondents, Zeffman or Mason presumably, recently talking about how unhappy many ministers were about the civil service.

So I went to search for that.

And, instead, I found the article about Starmer's speech.

So, no, I'm not going to give a response on whether they are of the same order - I've not seen Starmer's speech and at this time of night, I'm not going to rectify that now.

However, as part of that same bit of research, I noted that civil service unions were significantly less-than-happy at what Starmer had to say about their members, going so far as calling him "Trumpian". A Labour leader being compared to Donald Trump by a union leader is pretty remarkable, isn't it?

The head of the senior civil servants’ union has written to Keir Starmer urging him to rethink his “frankly insulting” criticism of Whitehall for being comfortable with falling standards.​

​

The general secretary of the FDA, the union for senior civil servants, suggested Starmer had invoked “Trumpian” language by claiming not to want to “drain the swamp” but having gone on to say that “too many people in Whitehall are comfortable in the tepid bath of managed decline”.​

​

Dave Penman told Starmer he feared it was “far more damaging than you had considered when you chose those words” after years of attacks on the civil service by previous governments had already harmed morale.​

​

The Guardian understands Starmer's speech suggesting civil servants are partly to blame for blocking reform in public services and Whitehall has made even some of his own ministers uncomfortable.​

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-criticism-civil-servants-whitehall-trumpian

Just to summarise....

There seems to be some consensus, from right across the political spectrum, that the civil service is not best placed to stimulate growth and get the economy moving in the way most would like.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just to summarise....

There seems to be some consensus, from right across the political spectrum, that the civil service is not best placed to stimulate growth and get the economy moving in the way most would like.

Did you mean to quote me? I havnt said anything about the civil service? I’m not sure I understand what you’re getting at?

 

[Bozza]

Did you mean to quote me? I havnt said anything about the civil service? I’m not sure I understand your point?

No just myself as a TL;DR!

 

[Is it PotG?]

UK inflation rate hits highest level for eight months.

The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.

Good times.

 

[Mustafa II]

UK inflation rate hits highest level for eight months.

The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.

Good times.

Not really bad or good news, just news.

Surely as a result of the minimum wage increase and employer NI contributions. This, coupled with the wage growth news, will mean that interest rates will not go drop again immediately... which can also be seen as a positive thing.

It's bizarre having a government who is being sensible with the economy, something that we haven't experienced in decades under Tory leadership.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Not really bad or good news, just news.

Surely as a result of the minimum wage increase and employer NI contributions. This, coupled with the wage growth news, will mean that interest rates will not go drop again immediately... which can also be seen as a positive thing.

It's bizarre having a government who is being sensible with the economy, something that we haven't experienced in decades under Tory leadership.

Interest rates staying high can also be seen as a real negative, depending on your position.

 

[Rdodge30]

Not really bad or good news, just news.

Surely as a result of the minimum wage increase and employer NI contributions. This, coupled with the wage growth news, will mean that interest rates will not go drop again immediately... which can also be seen as a positive thing.

It's bizarre having a government who is being sensible with the economy, something that we haven't experienced in decades under Tory leadership.

The minimum wage increases and increased NI contributions don’t come into effect until April. They haven’t happened yet. Inflation is increasing month on month, the Cost of Living Index is increasing month on month and economic growth is slowing. You cannot possibly think that this Government has been sensible with the economy given what is about to happen, that sounds like blind two legs bad four legs good politics from yourself

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

2 months of negative growth and rising inflation. Good job Keir

 

[Mustafa II]

The minimum wage increases and increased NI contributions don’t come into effect until April. They haven’t happened yet. Inflation is increasing month on month, the Cost of Living Index is increasing month on month and economic growth is slowing. You cannot possibly think that this Government has been sensible with the economy given what is about to happen, that sounds like blind two legs bad four legs good politics from yourself

Businesses don't wait to change their behaviour until April. They changed their behaviour as soon as they were aware of the changes. The news will have had a reactive effect on inflation the moment it was announced.

It is challenging times for ALL economies, considering the Trump uncertainties, the wars, and so on. We are outperforming most of our European neighbours, which is pretty phenomenal - considering the horror show that Labour inherited from the Conservatives.

We have many reasons to feel optimistic about this Labour government - early signs are extremely positive. We can be optimistic about 2025 and the years ahead under Starmer.

 

[Is it PotG?]

We have many reasons to feel optimistic about this Labour government - early signs are extremely positive. We can be optimistic about 2025 and the years ahead under Starmer.

Bit early to be on the sauce, even at Christmas.

 

[Mustafa II]

Interest rates staying high can also be seen as a real negative, depending on your position.

I think objectively, it is better that interest rates remain as 'normal' as possible and with wiggle room, rather than plummet back down to historic lows to artificially kickstart the economy, like under the Tories.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Businesses don't wait to change their behaviour until April. They changed their behaviour as soon as they were aware of the changes. The news will have had a reactive effect on inflation the moment it was announced.

It is challenging times for ALL economies, considering the Trump uncertainties, the wars, and so on. We are outperforming most of our European neighbours, which is pretty phenomenal - considering the horror show that Labour inherited from the Conservatives.

We have many reasons to feel optimistic about this Labour government - early signs are extremely positive. We can be optimistic about 2025 and the years ahead under Starmer.

Is this some sort of joke ?

 

[BBassic]

As a Labour voter I'm aware this is the shortest of straws to be clutching but I'm quite glad we're debating the relative merits / demerits / impacts of the budget etc. than whether or not it's a batshit insane idea to pay exorbitant amounts of money to send migrants to Rwanda (spoilers: yes, it was a batshit insane idea)

Am very much in the "lets see how it pans out" camp.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I think objectively, it is better that interest rates remain as 'normal' as possible and with wiggle room, rather than plummet back down to historic lows to artificially kickstart the economy, like under the Tories.

wrong interest rates went up 14 months in a row

 

[Is it PotG?]

As a Labour voter I'm aware this is the shortest of straws to be clutching but I'm quite glad we're debating the relative merits / demerits / impacts of the budget etc. than whether or not it's a batshit insane idea to pay exorbitant amounts of money to send migrants to Rwanda (spoilers: yes, it was a batshit insane idea)

Am very much in the "lets see how it pans out" camp.

Hopefully not too many suffer this winter in the cold, eh?

 

[Stout Girl]

My gran has voted for Labour for years, and she is very unhappy with them, she is a Waspi and she said Sir Keir and the lady i thought was nice Yvette, have both betrayed her and many others. I am starting to have real fears about who i voted for. Fingers crossed he will sort out all this mess by Easter.

 

[Bozza]

On semi-related news, did anyone see the start of the ITV News at Ten last night?

Before I'm judged too harshly, I'll briefly say that I rarely watch any TV news, let alone the ITV version. I'd had the Fred and Gino programme on in the background, and hadn't got round to turning it over when the news started.

The WASPI controversy was the lead story - frightful look for Starmer and Rayner, BTW - and Peston was in the studio to provide some commentary.

Was he drunk? After rambling along a bit, he finished by saying something like, "What next from this Labour government - promising to drown all puppies and kittens for Christmas?" The newsreader nearly lost it just as he had to transition to some serious story involving death or something/

 

[LamieRobertson]

Businesses don't wait to change their behaviour until April. They changed their behaviour as soon as they were aware of the changes. The news will have had a reactive effect on inflation the moment it was announced.

It is challenging times for ALL economies, considering the Trump uncertainties, the wars, and so on. We are outperforming most of our European neighbours, which is pretty phenomenal - considering the horror show that Labour inherited from the Conservatives.

We have many reasons to feel optimistic about this Labour government - early signs are extremely positive. We can be optimistic about 2025 and the years ahead under Starmer.

Checks CALENDER …..nope not April 1st


…so much one could say…but let’s just concentrate on your interest Rate comments…..the cuts weren’t unique to the UK …that was a worldwide situation ..so perhaps let’s not blame the Tories for this one ….then of course let’s remember that the BofE is (supposedly) independent of the government and they are the ones controlling base rate….it was suggested that rates should have gone up earlier in the latest cycle of increases ….of course we all blame the government for this and yet the (or at least some)responsibility lay elsewhere …no one I can see is suggesting rates will go down to previous historic low levels …but it was anticipated that cuts would come along quicker and more (that has changed)…..you’ll note ECB have cut and will continue apparently….The Fed likely to this evening…….think about higher rates…government borrowing costs more….business/consumer confidence dented.

so we are outperforming some of our European neighbours? That’s down to the short time Labour have been in power and a not well received budget ….pull the other one.

i hope HWT is right ….and there is always the “talking ourselves into a recession” …so I welcome some positivity…and encouraging signs (waiting) ….but not BS

MERRY XMAS

 

[Stout Girl]

My Gran, just feels they keep bashing the pensioners, i don't understand politics much, what do they gain from doing this? as it doesn't make sense, we have waited so long to make politics fairer. My poor Gran keeps saying, live life love, live life. If only she knew what i got up to, lol!