[Politics] The Labour Government

[Is it PotG?]

You're struggling big time and don't seem to understand things like inflation (you went very quiet on that particular topic when it soared ohh, just over three years ago). The fee increase is in line with the rise in inflation so, in real terms, the higher nominal charge is in line with the current one. This follows on from one increase in 14 years, which means that universities have been providing a service but receiving two-thirds in real terms than what it was back in 2011.
If any other business had to endure that, I'm sure you'd be along imputing it's all the new government's fault.

Hardly struggling, I don't feel the need of an edit.
Just seems a little odd from a bloke expressing interest in binning such chains a few years back.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Heard it all now, Cooper claims that boat crossings are at a high, because of the WEATHER.
Maybe Sir 'Free for Me' can Smash the Weather too.

 

[Hiheidi]

It makes no difference to the students what the tuition fee is, it only affects them on what the repayment mechanic is. A vast majority of students will not repay the loan in its 40 year term and it will get written off. It's a Graduate Tax, not a loan. What it does mean is that Universities will either stop losing money teaching UK students, or at least not lose as much as they have been losing.

So, it's good when Labour increase tuition fees because it helps universities, but bad when the Conservatives do it because it burdens the young with debt?!

 

[Igzilla]

So, it's good when Labour increase tuition fees because it helps universities, but bad when the Conservatives do it because it burdens the young with debt?!

In an ideal world, universities would be funded direct from the Government, no tuition fees and maintenance grants (not loans) to students. Sadly, this is not how it's currently setup. So, as far as I can see, the Tories froze the tuition fee cap for 8 years, all the while prices and costs went up. On PM earlier today, they were suggesting Labour are planning a big reform of the whole thing next year and this (fairly small rise) is a stop gap measure until then.

Oh, and he Tories are using exactly the same argument today about student debt, so pot, kettle, swings and roundabouts.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I do have experience of the system, thanks for the info though.

Family member? Friend? Clearly not yourself

 

[Machiavelli]

So, it's good when Labour increase tuition fees because it helps universities, but bad when the Conservatives do it because it burdens the young with debt?!

There's literally no comparison between the two cases. The Tories tripled tuition fees from £3k to £9k overnight. This was done as part of the austerity regime, and with the intention of getting university tuition off the public purse. The 'increase' that the new government are introducing is just in line with rates of inflation, so it's just a nominal increase, not a real-terms one. It might prevent certain universities from going into liquidation, as many of them are in a very precarious situation currently.

 

[Is it PotG?]

In an ideal world, universities would be funded direct from the Government, no tuition fees and maintenance grants (not loans) to students. Sadly, this is not how it's currently setup. So, as far as I can see, the Tories froze the tuition fee cap for 8 years, all the while prices and costs went up. On PM earlier today, they were suggesting Labour are planning a big reform of the whole thing next year and this (fairly small rise) is a stop gap measure until then.

Oh, and he Tories are using exactly the same argument today about student debt, so pot, kettle, swings and roundabouts.

Smashing the Gangs, reforming education...are there no ends to this bloke's talents?

 

[Igzilla]

Smashing the Gangs, reforming education...are there no ends to this bloke's talents?

You forgot 'not crashing the economy' - that's a Tory talent, isn't it?

 

[Is it PotG?]

You forgot 'not crashing the economy' - that's a Tory talent, isn't it?

They did have a fair bash last week though.

 

[Igzilla]

They did have a fair bash last week though.

He didn't do a very good job then. Perhaps he should have asked Thick Lizzie for advice.

 

[Weststander]

In an ideal world, universities would be funded direct from the Government, no tuition fees and maintenance grants (not loans) to students. Sadly, this is not how it's currently setup. So, as far as I can see, the Tories froze the tuition fee cap for 8 years, all the while prices and costs went up. On PM earlier today, they were suggesting Labour are planning a big reform of the whole thing next year and this (fairly small rise) is a stop gap measure until then.

Oh, and he Tories are using exactly the same argument today about student debt, so pot, kettle, swings and roundabouts.

It’s not party political, despite the soundbites. Politicians of all colours upped the % going to higher education from 10% to 55% over a long period. Making the cost huge. Maintenance and tuition fees were gradually means tested, in the end loans. I went in the mid 80’s, I didn’t qualify for maintenance.

Germany only has 25% of school leavers starting academic subject degrees. Instead the nation is focuses on vocational courses with employers.

The best we can hope for from Labour’s review is a cap on the ridiculous interest accruing.

 

[Hiheidi]

 

[Igzilla]

It’s not party political, despite the soundbites. Politicians of all colours upped the % going to higher education from 10% to 55% over a long period. Making the cost huge. Maintenance and tuition fees were gradually means tested, in the end loans. I went in the mid 80’s, I didn’t qualify for maintenance.

Germany only has 25% of school leavers starting academic subject degrees. Instead the nation is focuses on vocational courses with employers.

The best we can hope for from Labour’s review is a cap on the ridiculous interest accruing.

I went mid 90's - I got half loan/half grant and paid if off within a few years of working. Back then, and I guess also when you went, far fewer students attended uni. It's a very different landscape now.

 

[Hiheidi]

I went mid 90's - I got half loan/half grant and paid if off within a few years of working. Back then, and I guess also when you went, far fewer students attended uni. It's a very different landscape now.

Me too. My first job paid £11k annual salary and I started repayments immediately.

 

[chip]

I don't think young people, or the country, get very good value from university now.

 

[Weststander]

I don't think young people, or the country, get very good value from university now.

Student bodies say that, questioning what they get from the £9,250 for each October to May. Some unis and courses worse than others, people have totted up a derisory number of hours of lectures, seminars and tutorials.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Heard it all now, Cooper claims that boat crossings are at a high, because of the WEATHER.
Maybe Sir 'Free for Me' can Smash the Weather too.

Tories sat on their hands and let the issue get out of hand, I can't see Labour fixing it either

I don't believe there is actually any real will from either majoty party to stop it.

I don't think they have any real ideas either.

 

[chip]

Student bodies say that, questioning what they get from the £9,250 for each October to May. Some unis and courses worse than others, people have totted up a derisory number of hours of lectures, seminars and tutorials.

Yes, and it gets worse when you factor in an increased number of people in a class, especially when a significant number can't adequately communicate in English.

 

[Pondicherry]

Fundamentally we need to educate the right number of people in a range of skills according to the likely future demands of society. It doesn't matter how or by which institution this is achieved. This would likely dramatically reduce the numbers going current style universities as the Media Studies and Football Finance type degrees are weeded out. Education should be free but it should be strictly targeted to produce the skills we need and currently lack.

 

[Weststander]

Tories sat on their hands and let the issue get out of hand, I can't see Labour fixing it either

I don't believe there is actually any real will from either majoty party to stop it.

I don't think they have any real ideas either.

The only sensible thing I ever heard was in June Heseltine recognising the same. Said the UK and Europe as a whole should work together with source regions on development, their economies, prospects, food production.

Now it’s an unstoppable tide. Wars (not all started by the West eg Islamic slaughter in Sudan and Subsaharan Africa) and climate change.