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[Politics] The Labour Government









beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,956
Irrespective of politics, can anyone explain why it is a good idea to tax businesses just for employing people? Surely is suppresses both employment and wages?

The tax could be collected quite reasonably from individual income and company profits.

( this latest rise is an additional £902 per employee on median earnings on £33000, taking it from £3298 a year to £4200 )
it's a good way to ensure some form of reliable taxation from business. we do already have income taxes, while company profits are variable and may not occur. without it, many business would pay next to no taxes.

it is literally a tax on jobs and not a great idea from that point. the gamble/judgement is that there's sufficient growth in economy to absorb it.
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,565
I don’t get the farm argument tbh

Let’s just take a typical adult having kids 20-35, living to say 70-85 or so. If they’re passing a farm to their child who is working the farm, why on earth by the time the farmer is 70 odd and presumably no longer working the farm, and the child is say 50 - haven’t they already sorted the ownership and business model out?

You have both Partnership and Limited Liability Partnership models, as well as going the Limited Company route.

No way I would work my arse off on the family farm into my 40s and 50s and be given nothing of it until my parent dies.

If you’ve got to your death in reasonable old age and given nothing to your offspring if they’ve worked hard on your farm all their lives then paying that tax is your own fault imho. Any reasonable person could logically see that as your child showed passion and enterprise and ability to work the farm, you would be offloading assets and control to them within your own lifetime.
You are of course assuming that we all have at least 7 years' notice of our date of death. Sadly, experience doesn't bear this out. And of course if you are talking about potentially exempt transfers, they would need to be incredibly careful of the "gifts with reservation" exemptions.

Otherwise, dying in possession of limited company shares or partnership assets is just as taxable as dying in possession of land and property.
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,565
The problem for farmers is that their return, based on asset value, is tiny. Suppose the farm is 200 acres, notional value say £2m, with a 5% return on asset value . Houses and barns use up the normal IHT allowance so the tax is £200k.

Annual profits are £100k less tax ( obviously subject to the usual big year-on-year variation) so perhaps £60k net of tax and NIC. So the new farmer has to live for 3+ years on fresh air because all his income has to go to pay the tax. And of course he is being charged interest and penalties.

If any thought has gone into this at all, it may be that the plan is to force family farms to sell to the highest bidder, which would probably be a multinational solar power company. The government could then claim to be wonderful supporters of green energy while importing more food from around the world. (But I very much doubt that that much thought has gone in to this policy. )
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,427
Hove
You are of course assuming that we all have at least 7 years' notice of our date of death. Sadly, experience doesn't bear this out. And of course if you are talking about potentially exempt transfers, they would need to be incredibly careful of the "gifts with reservation" exemptions.

Otherwise, dying in possession of limited company shares or partnership assets is just as taxable as dying in possession of land and property.
You’ve not really read what my post said at all.
 


Hiheidi

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2022
1,851
If any thought has gone into this at all, it may be that the plan is to force family farms to sell to the highest bidder, which would probably be a multinational solar power company. The government could then claim to be wonderful supporters of green energy while importing more food from around the world. (But I very much doubt that that much thought has gone in to this policy. )

I'm probably buying into online conspiracy theories about Bill Gates meeting with Starmer recently, but he's the US's biggest private owner of farmland owning almost 250,000 acres - so is it that crazy that he wouldn't buy farmland going cheap in the UK? The death of the family farm and all of that generational knowledge would be a shit legacy for this Government.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,238
I'm probably buying into online conspiracy theories about Bill Gates meeting with Starmer recently, but he's the US's biggest private owner of farmland owning almost 250,000 acres - so is it that crazy that he wouldn't buy farmland going cheap in the UK? The death of the family farm and all of that generational knowledge would be a shit legacy for this Government.
Reeves explained very concisely on the BBC politics show this morning that It's 20% tax on the value of £1m plus farms...payable over 10 years, interest free. If 2 or 3 people co own a farm their tax exemption is £1m each so, a farm owned by 2 people worth £2m will be exempt if one dies...
 




Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,869
West Sussex
465066107_584602430924612_7333519247273388551_n.jpg
 


Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,304
Sussex by the Sea
Tuition fees going up :facepalm:

Sir Keir Starmer will raise university tuition fees for the first time in eight years apparently.

This afternoon Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary, will announce the increase which will see tuition fees rise in line with the Retail Price Index inflation.

The fee rise is expected to come into force from September 2025, meaning that it will affect A-level students who are currently applying to universities.

Good luck everyone.
 


Jun 21, 2011
72
Tuition fees going up :facepalm:

Sir Keir Starmer will raise university tuition fees for the first time in eight years apparently.

This afternoon Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary, will announce the increase which will see tuition fees rise in line with the Retail Price Index inflation.

The fee rise is expected to come into force from September 2025, meaning that it will affect A-level students who are currently applying to universities.

Good luck everyone.
Where has this been reported?
 






highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,535
The problem for farmers is that their return, based on asset value, is tiny. Suppose the farm is 200 acres, notional value say £2m, with a 5% return on asset value . Houses and barns use up the normal IHT allowance so the tax is £200k.

Annual profits are £100k less tax ( obviously subject to the usual big year-on-year variation) so perhaps £60k net of tax and NIC. So the new farmer has to live for 3+ years on fresh air because all his income has to go to pay the tax. And of course he is being charged interest and penalties.

If any thought has gone into this at all, it may be that the plan is to force family farms to sell to the highest bidder, which would probably be a multinational solar power company. The government could then claim to be wonderful supporters of green energy while importing more food from around the world. (But I very much doubt that that much thought has gone in to this policy. )
Think you are falling for the spin from the wealthy landowners and TV celebrities cos-playing as farmers.
No idea why the discussion on this seems to have developed over on the Kemi Badenoch thread, but the last two posts there may be helpful.
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,205
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Where has this been reported?
You mean where has it been reported again, since it was already reported along with the reinstatement of a maintenance grant for the poorest earlier in this year and earlier in this thread (or the multiple other ones, I lose track).
 




Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,205
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
You are of course assuming that we all have at least 7 years' notice of our date of death. Sadly, experience doesn't bear this out. And of course if you are talking about potentially exempt transfers, they would need to be incredibly careful of the "gifts with reservation" exemptions.

Otherwise, dying in possession of limited company shares or partnership assets is just as taxable as dying in possession of land and property.
You can insure against it with a Gift Inter Vivos policy.
 


Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,304
Sussex by the Sea
You mean where has it been reported again, since it was already reported along with the reinstatement of a maintenance grant for the poorest earlier in this year and earlier in this thread (or the multiple other ones, I lose track).
The fact that it is announced today has only just been reported :moo:

Do keep up.
 




dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,565
You mean where has it been reported again, since it was already reported along with the reinstatement of a maintenance grant for the poorest earlier in this year and earlier in this thread (or the multiple other ones, I lose track).
How expensive are those, roughly? And presumably not tax deductible.
 




dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,565
Tuition fees going up :facepalm:

Sir Keir Starmer will raise university tuition fees for the first time in eight years apparently.

This afternoon Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary, will announce the increase which will see tuition fees rise in line with the Retail Price Index inflation.

The fee rise is expected to come into force from September 2025, meaning that it will affect A-level students who are currently applying to universities.

Good luck everyone.
Plus VAT, perhaps?
 


Igzilla

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2012
1,700
Worthing
Tuition fees going up :facepalm:

Sir Keir Starmer will raise university tuition fees for the first time in eight years apparently.

This afternoon Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary, will announce the increase which will see tuition fees rise in line with the Retail Price Index inflation.

The fee rise is expected to come into force from September 2025, meaning that it will affect A-level students who are currently applying to universities.

Good luck everyone.
It makes no difference to the students what the tuition fee is, it only affects them on what the repayment mechanic is. A vast majority of students will not repay the loan in its 40 year term and it will get written off. It's a Graduate Tax, not a loan. What it does mean is that Universities will either stop losing money teaching UK students, or at least not lose as much as they have been losing.
 


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