[Politics] The Labour Government

[worthingseagull123]

What proportion of those are children (in full time education) and what proportion are past retirement age? Then we can talk percentages.

It will be in here somewhere.

https://www.compas.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/ECONREF-Refugees-and-the-UK-Labour-Market-report.pdf

Net migration from non EU nations is getting higher and higher

 

[Bodian]

Starmer out...

UK government debt highest since 1962

Debt has exceeded the highs reached during the coronavirus pandemic for the first time.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just 2 weeks after the general election and serious disorder breaks out in an English town . Sir Kier needs to convince the community that the Police are still in control of the streets otherwise they might as well be disbanded

Leeds is a city, not a town. The police were there with social services taking children away from the parents because of serious injury to the toddler in the family.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It will be in here somewhere.

https://www.compas.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/ECONREF-Refugees-and-the-UK-Labour-Market-report.pdf

Net migration from non EU nations is getting higher and higher

Yes, we all know

Unfortunately as has become blatantly obvious, you didn't when you kept voting for it. You got what you voted for

 

[armchairclubber]

So David Lammy said today The Palestinian Authority needs to be in charge.
The same Palestinian Authority who advocate the killing of Jews

I have no idea whether you are a Labour voter, Tory, Reform or other. It matters not and has no relevance or interest to me fwiw.

What I do find interesting is that your post above, which has been sitting on here for getting on for 12 hours, has had no comment or acknowledgement whatsoever. With this being a thread that normally has such outspoken and vociferous followers I find that bemusing.

As I have said before the Labour Party has a very wide range of both members and voters, from extremist far right (further right than Farage) to more left wing mindsets. I'm sure that there is someone, even if they can't find courage right now, just itching to like or agree or emoji with your post. However, I would also have thought that perhaps someone might have challenged it.

There was some detail that you have omitted, and as far as I can see has not been brought it to the attention of the thread. It may have no relevance here but I will post reference to yesterdays ICJ ruling below.

It will be interesting to see what course the LP takes, though I'd question anything reported on face value, particularly with characters like Lammy.

ICJ says Israeli occupation is 'unlawful' and breaches laws concerning apartheid

Top UN court says Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territories should be brought to an end 'as rapidly as possible'

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[Nicks]

And so it goes on

 

[abc]

And so it goes on

In reply to both your and armchairclubber’s posts, I would suggest that you both illustrate the complexity of the Israel/Palestine situation, the fact that that both sides have behaved atrociously and that both sides are deserving of empathy and support (particularly ordinary people) as well as criticism.

Far too many people (on here and elsewhere) adopt a polarised position which helps no one and it is always easy to pick out words and actions of individuals to support their polarised position.

I don’t profess to understand enough about the history or the current mess to offer a solution but I am pretty sure ‘balance’ from all sides of the argument will be a prerequisite to reaching one

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

“Urgent action is needed to immediately sever the ties between arms companies and our academic institutions.”

£1 billion subsidy for arms company exposed

Hundreds of university research grants went on projects with BAE Systems, an arms dealer which supplies Israel.

www.declassifieduk.org

What tosh. My brothers mate from Uni, is now working for BAE Systems in aerospace and weapons design, he's doing work for our government and the MOD, all of which ultimately keeps us safe. He knows that weapons are hideous, but it's a needs must in an ever more dangerous international stage. We have to defend ourselves some how.

These grants will help students get apprenticeships etc and they don't have to all be linked with the weapons design, it can open the doors up to aerospace manufacture etc so many avenues.

 

[chickens]

It will be in here somewhere.

https://www.compas.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/ECONREF-Refugees-and-the-UK-Labour-Market-report.pdf

Net migration from non EU nations is getting higher and higher

Right, let’s dig in shall we? Apologies all, this will be a lengthy essay, it’s complex, feel free to ignore.

Firstly, of course net migration from non-EU nations is getting higher, as companies still need staff, and the native British population is insufficient to fill the vacancies. This immigration will be replacing the EU migration of previous times, where we had the ability to move across Europe, just as Europeans could move to the UK.

There’s famously an 18 year lag time between babies being born and them being able to take their place in the labour market. That becomes a 21 year lag for roles requiring a degree education, and a 25 year lag for highly skilled roles such as doctors. Gaps that are occurring now, require filling via migration or remain unfilled.

Incidentally our birth rate remains low as couples quite fairly decide that bringing children into the society we’ve created is not for them, increasing the need for migration.

I’ve taken the most up to date statistics from here (released in May of this year)

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of UK international migration.

www.ons.gov.uk

In 2023, 1,218,000 people migrated to the UK (this includes refugees/asylum seekers) with net migration at 685,000 as nearly half as many people left the UK in 2023.

Of the 1.2 million arrivals, 85% are non-EU, as we’ve made it clear we don’t like EU immigration, so we now seek our labour elsewhere, mainly from India, Pakistan, Nigeria, China and Zimbabwe.

10% of immigration was from the EU, while the remaining 5% was British nationals returning to the UK from living elsewhere.

Drilling into the non-EU migration as it’s by far the largest component of immigration (just over a million people) gives the following along with approximate percentages, not precise coz there weren’t precisely 1 million non-EU migrants.

Work: 423,000 (42%)
Study: 379,000 (37%)
Family: 75,000 (7%)
Asylum: 81,000 (8%)
Humanitarian: 50,000 (5%)
Other: 21,000 (1%)

So, of the just over a million incoming from outside the EU, about 13% (131,000) are on Asylum/humanitarian visas. The rest are plugging holes in our workforce, funding the UK’s universities or being reunited with their families.

So, we now know that there were 131,000 arrivals across the whole UK in 2023 for asylum or humanitarian reasons, and only 81,000 (8%) if we stick strictly to those seeking asylum. Incidentally 29,000 of that 81,000 arrived via small boats.

The Humanitarian visas are slightly different as they are granted via special schemes such as those for Ukraine, Afghanistan and Hong Kong.

We also need to remember that until an asylum claim is granted, individuals are not permitted to work, and are often detained. As such, it’s in Britain’s interests to process claims fast, otherwise the taxpayer is left footing the bill for accommodation and living costs for months, if not years.

Can we get any numbers on the ages of those arriving, to determine whether they are children, of working age or retired? It’s surprisingly difficult. I was hoping for a neat breakdown, but struggled to find such a thing, it would require diving into the data tables to an extent I simply don’t have time for.

The article you linked to is quite old, and was initially confusing as it both states that the employment rate is 51%, and the unemployment rate is 18%.

Having read into employment rates, it seems the employment rate is those gainfully employed, while the unemployment rate is those actively seeking work, but not currently in work. The reason for the discrepancy between the two is precisely that some are in full time education, some are independently wealthy, some are of retirement age, and others have health issues that make work an unrealistic prospect. So the figure for those that could be working but aren’t (as of 2019) was an unemployment rate of 18%.

The report that you link to is interesting, as it suggests that it takes an average of 15 years for those migrants who come in through the asylum seeking route to reach the same levels of employment as those migrants who entered the UK on work visas, suggesting that the UK is doing a less than stellar job at supporting these individuals from where they are upon entry into the UK, to a position where they’re employable.

Finally, applying that unemployment rate of 18% to 2023’s immigration figures, it suggests that in 2023, 14,580 individuals arrived into the UK who will be unemployed and seeking employment. These individuals will be dispersed across the UK, this group would not be of sufficient size to make a meaningful impact on any one area’s employment/unemployment figures.

Without ongoing support, prior research suggests that it will take them an average of 15 years to enter the labour market.

Essay ends.

 

[Bodian]

Right, let’s dig in shall we? Apologies all, this will be a lengthy essay, it’s complex, feel free to ignore.

Firstly, of course net migration from non-EU nations is getting higher, as companies still need staff, and the native British population is insufficient to fill the vacancies. This immigration will be replacing the EU migration of previous times, where we had the ability to move across Europe, just as Europeans could move to the UK.

There’s famously an 18 year lag time between babies being born and them being able to take their place in the labour market. That becomes a 21 year lag for roles requiring a degree education, and a 25 year lag for highly skilled roles such as doctors. Gaps that are occurring now, require filling via migration or remain unfilled.

Incidentally our birth rate remains low as couples quite fairly decide that bringing children into the society we’ve created is not for them, increasing the need for migration.

I’ve taken the most up to date statistics from here (released in May of this year)

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of UK international migration.

www.ons.gov.uk

In 2023, 1,218,000 people migrated to the UK (this includes refugees/asylum seekers) with net migration at 685,000 as nearly half as many people left the UK in 2023.

Of the 1.2 million arrivals, 85% are non-EU, as we’ve made it clear we don’t like EU immigration, so we now seek our labour elsewhere, mainly from India, Pakistan, Nigeria, China and Zimbabwe.

10% of immigration was from the EU, while the remaining 5% was British nationals returning to the UK from living elsewhere.

Drilling into the non-EU migration as it’s by far the largest component of immigration (just over a million people) gives the following along with approximate percentages, not precise coz there weren’t precisely 1 million non-EU migrants.

Work: 423,000 (42%)
Study: 379,000 (37%)
Family: 75,000 (7%)
Asylum: 81,000 (8%)
Humanitarian: 50,000 (5%)
Other: 21,000 (1%)

So, of the just over a million incoming from outside the EU, about 13% (131,000) are on Asylum/humanitarian visas. The rest are plugging holes in our workforce, funding the UK’s universities or being reunited with their families.

So, we now know that there were 131,000 arrivals across the whole UK in 2023 for asylum or humanitarian reasons, and only 81,000 (8%) if we stick strictly to those seeking asylum. Incidentally 29,000 of that 81,000 arrived via small boats.

The Humanitarian visas are slightly different as they are granted via special schemes such as those for Ukraine, Afghanistan and Hong Kong.

We also need to remember that until an asylum claim is granted, individuals are not permitted to work, and are often detained. As such, it’s in Britain’s interests to process claims fast, otherwise the taxpayer is left footing the bill for accommodation and living costs for months, if not years.

Can we get any numbers on the ages of those arriving, to determine whether they are children, of working age or retired? It’s surprisingly difficult. I was hoping for a neat breakdown, but struggled to find such a thing, it would require diving into the data tables to an extent I simply don’t have time for.

The article you linked to is quite old, and was initially confusing as it both states that the employment rate is 51%, and the unemployment rate is 18%.

Having read into employment rates, it seems the employment rate is those gainfully employed, while the unemployment rate is those actively seeking work, but not currently in work. The reason for the discrepancy between the two is precisely that some are in full time education, some are independently wealthy, some are of retirement age, and others have health issues that make work an unrealistic prospect. So the figure for those that could be working but aren’t (as of 2019) was an unemployment rate of 18%.

The report that you link to is interesting, as it suggests that it takes an average of 15 years for those migrants who come in through the asylum seeking route to reach the same levels of employment as those migrants who entered the UK on work visas, suggesting that the UK is doing a less than stellar job at supporting these individuals from where they are upon entry into the UK, to a position where they’re employable.

Finally, applying that unemployment rate of 18% to 2023’s immigration figures, it suggests that in 2023, 14,580 individuals arrived into the UK who will be unemployed and seeking employment. These individuals will be dispersed across the UK, this group would not be of sufficient size to make a meaningful impact on any one area’s employment/unemployment figures.

Without ongoing support, prior research suggests that it will take them an average of 15 years to enter the labour market.

Essay ends.

So, 2.5% of people migrating to the UK were in small boats. I'm therefore wondering why the last Government was so obsessed with them, when they could presumably have reduced the other 97.5% somewhat if they really wanted to keep immigration down?

 

[chickens]

So, 2.5% of people migrating to the UK were in small boats. I'm therefore wondering why the last Government was so obsessed with them, when they could presumably have reduced the other 97.5% somewhat if they really wanted to keep immigration down?

Around that, yes.

The more I look at figures like these (and indeed these figures) and think about those who wanted to make this THE issue facing our country, I truly begin to understand just how insignificant they were.

 

[armchairclubber]

What tosh. My brothers mate from Uni, is now working for BAE Systems in aerospace and weapons design, he's doing work for our government and the MOD, all of which ultimately keeps us safe. He knows that weapons are hideous, but it's a needs must in an ever more dangerous international stage. We have to defend ourselves some how.

These grants will help students get apprenticeships etc and they don't have to all be linked with the weapons design, it can open the doors up to aerospace manufacture etc so many avenues.

Thanks for telling me about your brothers mate from Uni.

Please send him my regards (your brothers mate that is, not your brother)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Right, let’s dig in shall we? Apologies all, this will be a lengthy essay, it’s complex, feel free to ignore.

Firstly, of course net migration from non-EU nations is getting higher, as companies still need staff, and the native British population is insufficient to fill the vacancies. This immigration will be replacing the EU migration of previous times, where we had the ability to move across Europe, just as Europeans could move to the UK.

There’s famously an 18 year lag time between babies being born and them being able to take their place in the labour market. That becomes a 21 year lag for roles requiring a degree education, and a 25 year lag for highly skilled roles such as doctors. Gaps that are occurring now, require filling via migration or remain unfilled.

Incidentally our birth rate remains low as couples quite fairly decide that bringing children into the society we’ve created is not for them, increasing the need for migration.

I’ve taken the most up to date statistics from here (released in May of this year)

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of UK international migration.

www.ons.gov.uk

In 2023, 1,218,000 people migrated to the UK (this includes refugees/asylum seekers) with net migration at 685,000 as nearly half as many people left the UK in 2023.

Of the 1.2 million arrivals, 85% are non-EU, as we’ve made it clear we don’t like EU immigration, so we now seek our labour elsewhere, mainly from India, Pakistan, Nigeria, China and Zimbabwe.

10% of immigration was from the EU, while the remaining 5% was British nationals returning to the UK from living elsewhere.

Drilling into the non-EU migration as it’s by far the largest component of immigration (just over a million people) gives the following along with approximate percentages, not precise coz there weren’t precisely 1 million non-EU migrants.

Work: 423,000 (42%)
Study: 379,000 (37%)
Family: 75,000 (7%)
Asylum: 81,000 (8%)
Humanitarian: 50,000 (5%)
Other: 21,000 (1%)

So, of the just over a million incoming from outside the EU, about 13% (131,000) are on Asylum/humanitarian visas. The rest are plugging holes in our workforce, funding the UK’s universities or being reunited with their families.

So, we now know that there were 131,000 arrivals across the whole UK in 2023 for asylum or humanitarian reasons, and only 81,000 (8%) if we stick strictly to those seeking asylum. Incidentally 29,000 of that 81,000 arrived via small boats.

The Humanitarian visas are slightly different as they are granted via special schemes such as those for Ukraine, Afghanistan and Hong Kong.

We also need to remember that until an asylum claim is granted, individuals are not permitted to work, and are often detained. As such, it’s in Britain’s interests to process claims fast, otherwise the taxpayer is left footing the bill for accommodation and living costs for months, if not years.

Can we get any numbers on the ages of those arriving, to determine whether they are children, of working age or retired? It’s surprisingly difficult. I was hoping for a neat breakdown, but struggled to find such a thing, it would require diving into the data tables to an extent I simply don’t have time for.

The article you linked to is quite old, and was initially confusing as it both states that the employment rate is 51%, and the unemployment rate is 18%.

Having read into employment rates, it seems the employment rate is those gainfully employed, while the unemployment rate is those actively seeking work, but not currently in work. The reason for the discrepancy between the two is precisely that some are in full time education, some are independently wealthy, some are of retirement age, and others have health issues that make work an unrealistic prospect. So the figure for those that could be working but aren’t (as of 2019) was an unemployment rate of 18%.

The report that you link to is interesting, as it suggests that it takes an average of 15 years for those migrants who come in through the asylum seeking route to reach the same levels of employment as those migrants who entered the UK on work visas, suggesting that the UK is doing a less than stellar job at supporting these individuals from where they are upon entry into the UK, to a position where they’re employable.

Finally, applying that unemployment rate of 18% to 2023’s immigration figures, it suggests that in 2023, 14,580 individuals arrived into the UK who will be unemployed and seeking employment. These individuals will be dispersed across the UK, this group would not be of sufficient size to make a meaningful impact on any one area’s employment/unemployment figures.

Without ongoing support, prior research suggests that it will take them an average of 15 years to enter the labour market.

Essay ends.

Don’t forget the Tories deliberately added foreign university students to immigration figures, so that skews the employment ratio. They also leave three or four years later, having paid full whack keeping the university running, whilst UK students pay a third.

 

[carlzeiss]

Leeds is a city, not a town. The police were there with social services taking children away from the parents because of serious injury to the toddler in the family.

Thanks for the correction and of course it was Leeds City that was the first professional football club in Leeds before being expelled from the league for financial irregularities in 1919 and soon after dissolved . Leeds United were formed shortly after and entered the football league in 1920

 

[Is it PotG?]

Do we know where this cash is coming from?

 

[portslade seagull]

Do we know where this cash is coming from?

Probably just the start, plenty of other union paymasters watching this outcome

 

[Eeyore]

So David Lammy said today The Palestinian Authority needs to be in charge.
The same Palestinian Authority who advocate the killing of Jews

Just stop it. If you are going to contribute to threads make a reasoned assessment of situations and stop pumping extremes.

The Palestinian Authority recognises Israel's right to exist as part of UN resolutions. You know full well that every political group has extremes. You share the above but fail to balance by saying there are senior Israelis who do not recognise Palestinians right to exist and would be happy to see them wiped out.

There are bad people on all sides.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Thanks for telling me about your brothers mate from Uni.

Please send him my regards (your brothers mate that is, not your brother)

It was more aimed at the article, but thanks.

 

[armchairclubber]

It was more aimed at the article, but thanks.

No need to thank me, I've done nothing for you.

 

[Nicks]

Just stop it. If you are going to contribute to threads make a reasoned assessment of situations and stop pumping extremes.

The Palestinian Authority recognises Israel's right to exist as part of UN resolutions. You know full well that every political group has extremes. You share the above but fail to balance by saying there are senior Israelis who do not recognise Palestinians right to exist and would be happy to see them wiped out.

There are bad people on all sides.

I've just quoted something from X.
As for "reasoned assesments" and "pumping extremes" it's a thing called freedom of speech, as per the person calling for all Jews to be killed.