[Politics] The Labour Government

[Weststander]

Increasing minimum wage for all ages would be a mistake.

I’ve always employed 15 and 16 year olds in my shops alongside older staff. I rarely if ever get rid of anyone young based on ability (lack of) - I have often let younger staff go based on attitude!

I always say whatever your level of ability I will find something for you to do. They all develop at different rates and very often are much better in their second season, when their money goes up again.

Ilike to think that over the last 12 years many if not most have left us not just as competent shop staff but aware of what is expected of them as an employee and what to expect from future employers.

I’ve currently got 4 second season 16yo’s working on £9 per hour and 3 relatively new starters who started on £6.50 for a two week trial and are now on £7.50 **minimum wage for 16yo’s is £6.40**

Doing their side of the rota (back up staff/second servers) is a headache every week- I start by asking them all their availability and then work the rota to fit them .. they have family commitments/holidays , dance classes football practice - weekends off with absent parents etc etc … prom week is a nightmare every year!!

The bakery staff and senior shop staff are on set shifts no rotas required.

As the Conservatives put minimum wage up by 9% each of the last two years we can safely say Labour will increase it to roughly £12.50 for adults.

If that is to include 16yo’s I’m afraid I won’t be employing any 16yo’s again.

I’m all for the living wage being paid and always welcome uplifts in the minimum wage.

But it’s clearly calculated for folk with responsibilities and life’s outgoings. Kids per se don’t need that level of income.

I guessed many small businesses simply employ fewer staff. R5 have had call-ins previously where for cafe owners for example employ two members of staff, they chisel out an income for themselves, they let one person go where staff costs for them tip them into unviable.

 

[vegster]

Increasing minimum wage for all ages would be a mistake.

I’ve always employed 15 and 16 year olds in my shops alongside older staff. I rarely if ever get rid of anyone young based on ability (lack of) - I have often let younger staff go based on attitude!

I always say whatever your level of ability I will find something for you to do. They all develop at different rates and very often are much better in their second season, when their money goes up again.

Ilike to think that over the last 12 years many if not most have left us not just as competent shop staff but aware of what is expected of them as an employee and what to expect from future employers.

I’ve currently got 4 second season 16yo’s working on £9 per hour and 3 relatively new starters who started on £6.50 for a two week trial and are now on £7.50 **minimum wage for 16yo’s is £6.40**

Doing their side of the rota (back up staff/second servers) is a headache every week- I start by asking them all their availability and then work the rota to fit them .. they have family commitments/holidays , dance classes football practice - weekends off with absent parents etc etc … prom week is a nightmare every year!!

The bakery staff and senior shop staff are on set shifts no rotas required.

As the Conservatives put minimum wage up by 9% each of the last two years we can safely say Labour will increase it to roughly £12.50 for adults.

If that is to include 16yo’s I’m afraid I won’t be employing any 16yo’s again.

I do a slightly specialised job that takes a year or two to master working in a very well known high street chain. All the stores are franchises, the ultimate owners are based offshore for tax reasons. The franchisee has to keep wages down in order to boost his cut....I have gone several years without a pay review and managed an 8% increase last year...I had to ask for yet another pay review this year as, despite that pay rise I was only 47p an hour ahead of the Minimum Wage...the boss was moaning his costs have gone up...so I said " Who do I complain too when in April next year when the Minimum Wage increases beyond my current wage ? "

I got a £1 an hour rise....but, how do we build an economy that works for everyone when I have little money to put in to the economy and I pay minimal Income Tax ? I have to do without, shop at Lidl and drive a 10 year old car. If it wasn't for increases in the Minimum Wage I'd be stuffed.

 

[Beanstalk]

I’m all for the living wage being paid and always welcome uplifts in the minimum wage.

But it’s clearly calculated for folk with responsibilities and life’s outgoings. Kids per se don’t need that level of income.

I guessed many small businesses simply employ fewer staff. R5 have had call-ins previously where for cafe owners for example employ two members of staff, they chisel out an income for themselves, they let one person go where staff costs for them tip them into unviable.

But surely if you want a better economy, and most importantly, growth, then getting expendable cash into people's hands is one of the only ways to do it. it is important that any uplift isn't just there to cover essential outgoings but can go back to those businesses in the form of purchases. By raising wages for people of all ages you then have a mix of different priorities when it comes to spending, and in theory, you are able to stimulate the economy as a whole, rather than just helping people cover the already high outgoings of responsibility?

 

[Rdodge30]

I do a slightly specialised job that takes a year or two to master working in a very well known high street chain. All the stores are franchises, the ultimate owners are based offshore for tax reasons. The franchisee has to keep wages down in order to boost his cut....I have gone several years without a pay review and managed an 8% increase last year...I had to ask for yet another pay review this year as, despite that pay rise I was only 47p an hour ahead of the Minimum Wage...the boss was moaning his costs have gone up...so I said " Who do I complain too when in April next year when the Minimum Wage increases beyond my current wage ? "

I got a £1 an hour rise....but, how do we build an economy that works for everyone when I have little money to put in to the economy and I pay minimal Income Tax ? I have to do without, shop at Lidl and drive a 10 year old car. If it wasn't for increases in the Minimum Wage I'd be stuffed.

I understand and agree. However I won’t be paying 16yo’s that may or may not come good in their first year £12.50 an hour… I certainly won’t be able to get them to work regular shifts at weekends and during the holidays because their availability is limited.

My issue is with putting all age groups on the upper rate… I’m already paying some of mine 40% over their minimum wage.

If the government bring this in then it will almost certainly be very bad for any 15/16yo’s who want to work.

 

[A1X]

 

[BLOCK F]

But surely if you want a better economy, and most importantly, growth, then getting expendable cash into people's hands is one of the only ways to do it. it is important that any uplift isn't just there to cover essential outgoings but can go back to those businesses in the form of purchases. By raising wages for people of all ages you then have a mix of different priorities when it comes to spending, and in theory, you are able to stimulate the economy as a whole, rather than just helping people cover the already high outgoings of responsibility?

Fine in theory, but if it makes a business unviable, then either less bods will be employed or the boss will close the business down. Just because you are paying your staff more, it doesn’t automatically mean that your sales volume will increase to compensate and additionally you may not be able to increase your prices dependent on demand or competition.

 

[TomandJerry]

The government will definitely legislate to allow votes at 16 before the next general election, Bridget Phillipson, the education secretary, said.

 

[A1X]

• HS2 remains cancelled.

 

[Weststander]

But surely if you want a better economy, and most importantly, growth, then getting expendable cash into people's hands is one of the only ways to do it. it is important that any uplift isn't just there to cover essential outgoings but can go back to those businesses in the form of purchases. By raising wages for people of all ages you then have a mix of different priorities when it comes to spending, and in theory, you are able to stimulate the economy as a whole, rather than just helping people cover the already high outgoings of responsibility?

Definitely.

But, what wage should a shop/cafe pay to school kids? The Living Wage is calculated for ordinary adults with housing costs.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

If it's legal migration then I have no problem with it as it enriches our country and fills the various job roles.
But flip the coin and it's costing us millions which could be better spent on hospitals, affordable housing , getting the homeless off the streets ( whilst illegal immigrants get fed and watered and free treatment)

You may be right, but I don't see why it necessarily follows that illegal migration doesn't benefit our society.
Are there statistics to back this statement up?
Or is it based on the assumption that all illegal migrants are themselves criminals/terrorists/both?

Equally I'm not convinced that legal migration is so meticulously scrutinised that it only allows "the right sort" of migrant through.

I suspect that Immigration services may have been run into the ground, like every other public service and would struggle to deliver the kind of controls, which both sides of the argument would like to be in place.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You may be right, but I don't see why it necessarily follows that illegal migration doesn't benefit our society.
Are there statistics to back this statement up?
Or is it based on the assumption that all illegal migrants are themselves criminals/terrorists/both?

Equally I'm not convinced that legal migration is so meticulously scrutinised that it only allows "the right sort" of migrant through.

I suspect that Immigration services may have been run into the ground, like every other public service and would struggle to deliver the kind of controls, which both sides of the argument would like to be in place.

One of my brothers works for them, specifically dealing with 'illegal' immigrants. He tells me the services have been run into the ground.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Increasing minimum wage for all ages would be a mistake.

I’ve always employed 15 and 16 year olds in my shops alongside older staff. I rarely if ever get rid of anyone young based on ability (lack of) - I have often let younger staff go based on attitude!

I always say whatever your level of ability I will find something for you to do. They all develop at different rates and very often are much better in their second season, when their money goes up again.

Ilike to think that over the last 12 years many if not most have left us not just as competent shop staff but aware of what is expected of them as an employee and what to expect from future employers.

I’ve currently got 4 second season 16yo’s working on £9 per hour and 3 relatively new starters who started on £6.50 for a two week trial and are now on £7.50 **minimum wage for 16yo’s is £6.40**

Doing their side of the rota (back up staff/second servers) is a headache every week- I start by asking them all their availability and then work the rota to fit them .. they have family commitments/holidays , dance classes football practice - weekends off with absent parents etc etc … prom week is a nightmare every year!!

The bakery staff and senior shop staff are on set shifts no rotas required.

As the Conservatives put minimum wage up by 9% each of the last two years we can safely say Labour will increase it to roughly £12.50 for adults.

If that is to include 16yo’s I’m afraid I won’t be employing any 16yo’s again.

Minimum wage really isn't delivering what it was intended to do.

As a young un, I was motivated by earning as much as I could.
Showing initiative to be promoted, given decent pay rises, helped me develop a career after leaving school with just a couple of o'levels.

Minimum wage has brought everyone up to the same level and employers often don't ( or can't afford to) offer incentives for keen staff
There is little incentive for young people to excel, as they just get the same reward as the lowest performing staff members.

Most motivated youngsters are just looking for a side hustle to get ahead.

 

[Bob!]

But, but

I was told on here and by Sunk that Labour didn't have any plans?

What an awful lot jammed in to the Labour Government’s first King’s Speech. I hope some might find this a helpful summary of some of the main legislation announcements - the whole text of the King’s Speech is on the link below (or just skip and go to TD;LR )

• Employment Rights Bill - bans zero -hour contracts. Sick pay, parental leave and protection from unfair dismissal available from day 1. Removal of lower earnings limit on Statutory Sick pay. Default flexible working hours from day 1. Establishment of Fair Work Agency to enforce workers rights. Removing minimum service levels in industrial action and restrictions on union activity.
• Planning and Infrastructure Bill to speed up process and invest in industry - new housing programme already announced with mandatory house building targets imposed.
• Tobacco and Vapes Bill phasing out smoking and tightening vaping regulation.
• Mental Health Bill to modernise Mental Health legislation improving how patients are cared
• Two child benefit cap to remain - (expect backbench revolt)
• VAT on private school fees ‘to fund 6,500 teachers’
• Palestine - Committed to 2 state solution (no change in policy)
• National Wealth Fund Bill - £7.3 billion fund to be establish for investment in projects that can deliver growth
• Budget Responsibility Bill to stop repeat of Liz Truss type ‘mini-budgets’ - must be subject to independent assessment.
• HS2 remains cancelled.
• Publicly owned bus companies set up by Council with operators to have a greater responsibility to provide services in eg rural areas.
• English Devolution Bill - new powers for local authorities to deliver local growth plans - more freedom for local authorities to deliver national policies by transferring existing power out of Westminister. ()
• Cyber Security and Resilience Bill - expanding the security of digital services and critical infrastructure
• Hillsborough Law places a legal duty on public servants and authorities to tell truth, improving transparency and accountability where public services are being investigated .
• The Football Governance Bill - reintroduced (see FG Bill thread)
• Tobacco & Vapes Bill - Anyone born after 2009 barred from buying cigarettes and tougher regulations on the sale/marketing of vapes.
• House of Lords Hereditary Peers Bill Removal of the right for remaining hereditary peers to sit and vote in HoL.
• Passenger Railways Services (Public Ownership) Bill - first stages to renationalise railways - appointment of public-sector operator to be the default choice (not just when companies are failing). Train operators to transfer to public-sector operator as contracts expire.
• Railways Bill - in conjunction with above, management and service delivery to come under single public body. Great British Railways (GBR) - Ticketing system to be simplified, automatic compensation and digital pay-as-you-go services to be rolled out.
• Great British Energy Bill - Establish ‘Great British Energy’ a publicly-owned energy production company which will own, manage and produce clean power projects to ensure the UK meets its sustainability targets for energy production, distribution and storage by 2030.
• Water (Special Measures) Bill - to put water companies under special measures to clean up rivers, lakes and sea - tougher regulation on pollution and attract private investment to upgrade infrastructure. Bosses to face personal criminal liability for breaking the law (to end hiding behind corporate liability). Payment of Bonuses to be banned if environmental standards aren’t met. Tougher and independent scrutiny on sewage outlet.
• Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill - increasing powers of law enforcement to crack down on gangs including stop and search to investigate for involvement in organised immigration crime and imposing tougher penalties. Ending hotel use by clearing asylum backlog, fast-track returns for individuals coming from safe countries.

(Reducing voting age to 16 years does not feature at all in speech - unlikely to be enacted this session but will be raised as a debate at some point. No mention of dentistry or funding/restructuring NHS..

Full Speech here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6697ac9cab418ab05559271d/King_s_Speech_2024_background_briefing_GOV.uk.pdf

TL;DR
A lot of talk in the King’s Speech with a very packed Legislative programme. However, while heading in the direction of implementing manifesto promises mostly today was about laying down the foundations for change at this juncture rather than any major changes immediately.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

But surely if you want a better economy, and most importantly, growth, then getting expendable cash into people's hands is one of the only ways to do it. it is important that any uplift isn't just there to cover essential outgoings but can go back to those businesses in the form of purchases. By raising wages for people of all ages you then have a mix of different priorities when it comes to spending, and in theory, you are able to stimulate the economy as a whole, rather than just helping people cover the already high outgoings of responsibility?

It won't stimulate growth, the reality is that the majority of employers have a limited pot they will spend on salary increases.
The uplift in minimum wage pay increases, will more often than not be paid for, by giving lower pay rises to the higher paid staff.

If you want to grow the economy you are better off taxing the 1% more and using the proceeds to reduce taxes for the lower paid.
Then you increase the amount of disposable wealth being spent within the economy.

 

[Rdodge30]

Minimum wage really isn't delivering what it was intended to do.

As a young un, I was motivated by earning as much as I could.
Showing initiative to be promoted, given decent pay rises, helped me develop a career after leaving school with just a couple of o'levels.

Minimum wage has brought everyone up to the same level and employers often don't ( or can't afford to) offer incentives for keen staff
There is little incentive for young people to excel, as they just get the same reward as the lowest performing staff members.

Most motivated youngsters are just looking for a side hustle to get ahead.

In August our shops are insanely busy - it’s very hard work and as an incentive I run a 2% of turnover bonus scheme which gets shared out pro rata amongst all the shop staff.

 

[bluenitsuj]

But, but

I was told on here and by Sunk that Labour didn't have any plans?

They have lots of stupid plans

 

[Bob!]

They have lots of stupid plans

They seem eminently sensible to me

 

[Bodian]

They have lots of stupid plans

Which ones specifically, and why are they stupid?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Which ones specifically, and why are they stupid?

I await his reply with interest.

And it had better be *lots* or I'm calling "whiney tory bullshit".

 

[BN41Albion]

They have lots of stupid plans

Please expand...