[Politics] The Labour Government

[Zeberdi]

But, but

I was told on here and by Sunk that Labour didn't have any plans?

posts deleted TLDR

By the way - Liz Truss complained about the reference in the civil service notes on the new Budget Responsibility Bill to her ‘disastrous’ mini- budget which I thought rather amusing - I referred to it in my now deleted post as

• Budget Responsibility Bill to stop repeat of Liz Truss type ‘mini-budgets’ - must be subject to independent assessment.

The original notes on the website read …”intended to capture and prevent those announcements that could resemble the disastrous Liz Truss mini-budget”. All mention of her mini-budget has now been removed from the notes relating to the new Bill. She argued that the civil service should not be making political judgements like that

 

[BadFish]

But literally no one, especially not Labour, is saying we should just accept anyone.

The King's Speech sets out the ways they're going to deal with it. Police to use counter terror powers against smuggling gangs and processing to be made fit for purpose so that illegal migrants can be deported quicker. They're not standing with their fingers in their ears singing la la la.

The grey area is asylum as I suspect we both know. If your asylum claim is accepted you are legal and can go ahead and work and enrich the country. If it's not, you're deported. The Reform position appears to be to not accept any asylum claim, while the humane thing to do is give people a roof and some basic food and medicine while the claim is assessed.

I don't know a single Labour voter who wants uncontrolled migration, I certainly don't, but I do expect my government to act like human beings.

The discussion around asylum seekers has been going for 15 Years or so and this is a brilliant summation of where it ends up for most.

I find it staggering that people can still be persuaded to refer to asylum seekers as 'illegals' by the agencies that have chosen to work in opposition to well discussed and well reasoned conclusions.

The fact that the persuasion manifests itself in such a confident and arrogant manner while being based on so much false information is even more staggering. People have done their jobs very effectively.

 

[Zeberdi]

The discussion around asylum seekers has been going for 15 Years or so and this is a brilliant summation of where it ends up for most.

I find it staggering that people can still be persuaded to refer to asylum seekers as 'illegals' by the agencies that have chosen to work in opposition to well discussed and well reasoned conclusions.

The fact that the persuasion manifests itself in such a confident and arrogant manner while being based on so much false information is even more staggering. People have done their jobs very effectively.

Unfortunately - the use of the term to refer to ‘irregular’ migrants ( ie those not arriving by official roots) as ‘illegal’ is so ingrained into the debate on immigration, political analysts, the media and the right wing political parties have used it for years to influence public thinking.

Labour’s manifesto/Border Command bill imo shows that there are ways to be tough on migration whilst keeping our traditional humanitarian values. It recognises the right to claim asylum is not in itself illegal but people smuggling is.

 

[rogersix]

They have lots of stupid plans

do you not understand them?

 

[A1X]

I await his reply with interest.

And it had better be *lots* or I'm calling "whiney tory bullshit".

I wouldn’t hold your breath…

 

[Hugo Rune]

Labour’s manifesto/Border Command bill imo shows that there are ways to be tough on migration whilst keeping our traditional humanitarian values. It recognises the right to claim asylum is not in itself illegal but people smuggling is.

There are rumours that Macron might be willing to take back some of the people who cross the channel on boats. This will need diplomacy on behalf of the Labour government, something the previous administration had very little of as they played to the right wing media rather than trying to actually solve problems.

It’s possible that this scheme would return many more than the numbers of migrants earmarked for deportation to Rwanda. It’s amazing what coperative partnerships can achieve when juxtaposed against the two-finger diplomacy the likes of Patel, Johnson and Braverman would using on the French.

 

[beorhthelm]

There are rumours that Macron might be willing to take back some of the people who cross the channel on boats. This will need diplomacy on behalf of the Labour government, something the previous administration had very little of as they played to the right wing media rather than trying to actually solve problems.

It’s possible that this scheme would return many more than the numbers of migrants earmarked for deportation to Rwanda. It’s amazing what coperative partnerships can achieve when juxtaposed against the two-finger diplomacy the likes of Patel, Johnson and Braverman would using on the French.

where? why would Macron, faced with political resurgence of the right in his country, accept the return of foreign nationals? and if this is possible, why have numerous governments going way back before the last, not tried this agreement before?

 

[Zeberdi]

where? why would Macron, faced with political resurgence of the right in his country, accept the return of foreign nationals? and if this is possible, why have numerous governments going way back before the last, not tried this agreement before?

Because it is how the Starmer Government intend to move forward cf to the Tories - in a spirit of cooperation and closer partnerships.

This would likely be in exchange for accepting some child asylum seekers who have family in the UK from the EU.

Starmer to push for new migrant return deal with EU, as he seeks to 'renew UK's relationship with Europe' at summit

Keir Starmer is expected to push for a new migrants return deal with the EU at a summit to be held in the UK on Thursday.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Is it PotG?]

Because it is how the Starmer Government intend to move forward cf to the Tories - in a spirit of cooperation and closer partnerships.

This would likely be in exchange for accepting some child asylum seekers who have family in the UK from the EU.

Starmer to push for new migrant return deal with EU, as he seeks to 'renew UK's relationship with Europe' at summit

Keir Starmer is expected to push for a new migrants return deal with the EU at a summit to be held in the UK on Thursday.

www.lbc.co.uk

All lovely rhetoric, 'closer relationship', 'friends across the water'...let's see how it pans out in the real world, hopefully for the better.

 

[Hugo Rune]

where? why would Macron, faced with political resurgence of the right in his country, accept the return of foreign nationals? and if this is possible, why have numerous governments going way back before the last, not tried this agreement before?

Times.

 

[Hugo Rune]

where? why would Macron, faced with political resurgence of the right in his country, accept the return of foreign nationals? and if this is possible, why have numerous governments going way back before the last, not tried this agreement before?

Come on. You know this.

You are MUCH better than that.

The Tories smashed our relationship with the EU and especially the French in exchange for pleasing the right wing press and the most cerebrally limited people in our country. They could never have pulled off a deal like this.

 

[beorhthelm]

Come on. You know this.

You are MUCH better than that.

The Tories smashed our relationship with the EU and especially the French in exchange for pleasing the right wing press and the most cerebrally limited people in our country. They could never have pulled off a deal like this.

stop pretending immigration became a problem in 2010. there were years of problems and "must act on immigration" bills in the Blair years. if they could legally send immigrants back to France they'd have agreed to long ago.

and rumour squashed this morning:

Starmer not seeking migrant returns deal with European nations, Foreign Secretary tells LBC

The Prime Minister is not looking for a migrant returns deal with fellow European nations, the Foreign Secretary has told LBC.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[nicko31]

I can see the UK become a place for inward investment, so much political instability elsewhere.

Sterling rallying against Euro and USD

 

[Zeberdi]

All lovely rhetoric, 'closer relationship', 'friends across the water'...let's see how it pans out in the real world, hopefully for the better.

I prefer that to the rhetoric we’ve had for the past 10 years or so, with the hard right of the Tories and UKIP/Reform demonising asylum seekers, calling them “illegal” and blaming them for our crisis in social care and all our NHS and housing problems.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

where? why would Macron, faced with political resurgence of the right in his country, accept the return of foreign nationals? and if this is possible, why have numerous governments going way back before the last, not tried this agreement before?

They did, when we were in the EU, under the Dublin Agreement.
Then we left the EU.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I wouldn’t hold your breath…

I didn't modify my respiratory pattern at all.

Why make a nonsense statement then vanish?
It's like throwing a stone over a wall and running away.

Sadly these idiots get a vote.

 

[beorhthelm]

They did, when we were in the EU, under the Dublin Agreement.
Then we left the EU.

i concede i forgot about Dublin Agreement. though as that didn't solve the problem hints that it may not have been the solution either.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

i concede i forgot about Dublin Agreement. though as that didn't solve the problem hints that it may not have been the solution either.

it had an effect on the number of people crossing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

R5 phone in on 'stop the boats'. How will labour do it.

One caller points out that 'the boats' constitutes less than 5% of immigration so if numbers is your issue, it is irrelevant. Make yourself a warm mug of tea.

Another caller said that the problem is that since we left the EU the French don't have to take anyone back, and Labour were wrong to get of if Rwanda because it is the only deterrent that works and numbers fell when it was brought in.

Disappointed the presenter did not point out that numbers have not fallen, nobody has been sent to Rwanda, and the very action that was supposed to give us control of the borders (Brexit) is the very thing that has taken away our ability to act with the French to control the borders. Unfortunately this farrago of old bollocks was allowed to pass.

Actually the latter is untrue. We can make arrangements with the French. Johnson refused to negotiate with the French because he calculated this would make him look strong. Sunak belatedly tried to negotiate with the French and has paid them tax payers' money to, er, do something. And Starmer is meeting the French president today to restart the ball rolling properly.

Another caller said the problem is the gangs who tell boat people to throw away their ID. The gangs operate 'exclusively in France and not in the UK' apparently (), and once people arrive with no ID we can't send them back because we don't know where they came from. This is why we have to send them to Rwanda.

Interesting how people genuinely believe that Rwanda is the only solution and we already know that it works.

Here are the migration watch UK statistics. You can see here how well Rwanda has worked.

And here, dearly beloved, is how a small problem has been deliberately weaponized by the Tories (and Farage) for purposes of vote harvesting (and money making). And in the end the country said f*** Off Tories (and the worst of the thickies have decided to make Farage richer).

But....but.... I haven't addressed what Starmer will do? Whatever it is will be better than all this shit. Even if it is simply to say 'stop pissing yourself over an irrelevance'. This won't have any traction with those who will never sleep soundly until everyone everywhere who might take some of My Money away are still living, of course. But f*** them. They will never be happy, and certainly never happy with Labour. f*** 'em.

And the phone in goes on. "Why don't we just send them back?" Honestly, these people phoning R5 presumably care about the issue. And yet they have spent precisely no time at all finding out the facts.

Will Starmer 'fix it'? I don't know. The flow of 'illegal' migrants is a bit like black crime in the 70s. Certain sorts would seize on every crime committed by a black person, demand that it Must Stop, and insist the Only Solution is Compulsory Repatriation. But what if they were born here? "Well they shouldn't have been". I am not sure even these goons actually thought that all crime would cease with Compulsory Repatriation. And yet the modern day goon thinks we will earn more money, have shorter waiting lists, lots of cheap energy, and affordable housing if we could only Stop The Boats. Time to move on....

 

[nicko31]

it had an effect on the number of people crossing.

View attachment 185791

The Dublin agreement was rarely used but it was a genuine deterrent. There was an opportunity to do something similar post Brexit but Johnson was in a hurry he just wanted Brexit done, parliament was sidelined, scrutiny was non-existent and the public were distracted by Christmas. It was a terrible deal for the UK