[Politics] The Labour Government

[jcdenton08]

Ah - so you are really saying 'more' should receive it rather than 'all'?

Yes, unless the means testing actually costs more than just paying it.

 

[BN41Albion]

I’d rather it was paid to people in those cases, if it means the millions of others not in those positions are able to afford to have the heating on this winter and save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives. I think it’s a small price to pay. Please see my explanation regarding the £11k cut off for my reasoning

OK, I get your point in that respect

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Tories tried to demonise them, aided by the right wing press. It wasn’t constructive and only made matters worse.

And indeed the BMA have not been given everything they want.

Earlier today I read on NSC that Streeting was going to do, what on the terraces, would be called "get into them (f*** them up)".

It is odd how polarized the views are about things political. Streeting is a union basher and a union patsy all in the space of one day.

I assume he is neither, and is someone trying to do better than his predecessors. Fancy that.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, unless the means testing actually costs more than just paying it.

I'll second that!

 

[Boroseagull]

You seriously think it should be paid to those, for example, lucky enough to be on final salary pensions having paid off their mortgage decades ago?

It could quite easily be linked to your tax return. In Spain what a pensioner pays towards medicines, they are not free here, is on this basis either 5% or 10% of the cost. Not a great deal I accept but a contribution that spreads the load a little more evenly.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

You seriously think it should be paid to those, for example, lucky enough to be on final salary pensions having paid off their mortgage decades ago?

You do realise final salary pensions are not all large? They are actually based on the employees final salaries which compared to today's salaries might be very modest, for example a bank cashier on say £12k pa a decade or two ago, might get £8k pa pension or maybe £5k pa pension if they had to take and use the lump sum to pay off debt/mortgage. That person might very well rely on the fuel allowance to get by. And they may also have been funding their final salary pension as part of their pay package. So actually yes, many on final salary pensions quite possibly should receive the fuel allowance and need it.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Easy to settle when you just give them whatever they want.

It isn’t settled yet. The “Union” Will be putting it to the membership, who could still reject it.
are you aware that, in real terms, channel 4 reckoned that junior doctor’s pay had fallen by 26% since 2008/09? People who are bearing enormous responsibility under great pressure and have people’s lives in their hands are, in extremis, having to go to food banks. And you would seem to want to perpetuate that.

 

[drew]

You do realise final salary pensions are not all large? They are actually based on the employees final salaries which compared to today's salaries might be very modest, for example a bank cashier on say £12k pa a decade or two ago, might get £8k pa pension or maybe £5k pa pension if they had to take and use the lump sum to pay off debt/mortgage. That person might very well rely on the fuel allowance to get by. And they may also have been funding their final salary pension as part of their pay package. So actually yes, many on final salary pensions quite possibly should receive the fuel allowance and need it.

Aren't you forgetting that final salary schemes are index linked! Also, do you really think bank cashiers approaching retirement age were earning as little as £12k a couple of decades ago?

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Aren't you forgetting that final salary schemes are index linked! Also, do you really think bank cashiers approaching retirement age were earning as little as £12k a couple of decades ago?

No I'm not. And index linking a small pension is still a small pension. Not forgetting part of it was almost certainly contracted out, therefore picks up a much lower annual increase. And since a cashier now would earn about £16/£17k pa, I'd say £12k 20 years ago sounds about right.

By the by, I don't think the fuel allowance should be universal, I'm just saying that having a final salary pension is a clumsy criterion. Mrs Earle has one. It's £120pm!

 

[Hugo Rune]

No I'm not. And index linking a small pension is still a small pension. Not forgetting part of it was almost certainly contracted out, therefore picks up a much lower annual increase. And since a cashier now would earn about £16/£17k pa, I'd say £12k 20 years ago sounds about right.

With the greatest possible respect, you are looking at a cashier earning around £22.6k per year with the Tory minimum living wage at 38hrs per week (for an adult).

I’m not saying you are out of touch………but a quick google would have resolved this.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No I'm not. And index linking a small pension is still a small pension. Not forgetting part of it was almost certainly contracted out, therefore picks up a much lower annual increase. And since a cashier now would earn about £16/£17k pa, I'd say £12k 20 years ago sounds about right.

By the by, I don't think the fuel allowance should be universal, I'm just saying that having a final salary pension is a clumsy criterion. Mrs Earle has one. It's £120pm!

But a final salary index linked pension is not most commonly available to someone on near minimum wage. Anyone working for 40 years and still on minimum wage when they retire is not likely to be in an industry paying index linked final salary pensions.

I'm in the higher education sector and anyone joining the profession in the last 10 years is on average salary pension.

But as many have said, why not means test winter fuel allowance, and raise the threshold for those whose index linked final salary pensions are based on a final salary of £17K a year or less?

(If I seem a little tetchy it is because I am probably losing my patience crafting this elegant reply)

 

[drew]

No I'm not. And index linking a small pension is still a small pension. Not forgetting part of it was almost certainly contracted out, therefore picks up a much lower annual increase. And since a cashier now would earn about £16/£17k pa, I'd say £12k 20 years ago sounds about right.

By the by, I don't think the fuel allowance should be universal, I'm just saying that having a final salary pension is a clumsy criterion. Mrs Earle has one. It's £120pm!

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/bank-teller-salary-SRCH_KO0,11.htm

 

[Super Steve Earle]

With the greatest possible respect, you are looking at a cashier earning around £22.6k per year with the Tory minimum living wage at 38hrs per week (for an adult).

I’m not saying you are out of touch………but a quick google would have resolved this.

Obviously Google let me down... 'The estimated total pay range for a Cashier at NatWest Group is £15K–£23K per year, which includes base salary and additional pay.'

 

[Hugo Rune]

Obviously Google let me down... 'The estimated total pay range for a Cashier at NatWest Group is £15K–£23K per year, which includes base salary and additional pay.'

The £15k bit is part time. This is full time….

 

[Machiavelli]

OK, it's that you don't understand.
First, you're quibbling between 'We will start to see the effect of it' and what I said which was 'it'll start to come down in the course of the parliament'.
Second, in your initial post that I responded to, you said that 'it would take at least six years to get energy prices down'. So in your reply to me, you're now admitting that you were wrong in your initial post (which is what I said).
Third, Miliband is talking about two things. You took up the issue of consumer prices, which has been dealt with above. The 2030 date is an ambition to decarbonise electricity. I doubt that'll be achieved but suspect we'll get relatively close, but it's hugely ambitious and will be an enormous step towards the net zero by 2050 legal goal. Beyond electricity decarbonisation, we'll need to transfer away from fossil fuels in transport, central heating in homes, cement and steel production, and other more minor changes.
It appears that you are not keen on decarbonising electricity. If that is the case, here's a question for you. What alternative do you propose?

I see that @Nicks is busy posting links to twitter posts and giving one-liner posts attacking one particular political party, but cannot fathom the energy to respond to a quite simple question.
There seems to be a bit of a pattern here

 

[Baldseagull]

Yes, unless the means testing actually costs more than just paying it.

It does, but, if the cost is employing people to do the work, it's greater employment. The other big concern is that if people are required to apply for the payment, many that need it won't, because they are either too proud, or too baffled by the process.
If there is a simplified way of making the cut, I am all for money going where it is needed most.

 

[Nicks]

I see that @Nicks is busy posting links to twitter posts and giving one-liner posts attacking one particular political party, but cannot fathom the energy to respond to a quite simple question.
There seems to be a bit of a pattern here

Life is about opinions and this is my opinion, and if you don't like what I post it say you know where the ignore button is.
FWIW Starmer is one of the biggest liars this country will ever see.
Obviously the biggest liar is Blair who sent innocent troops to their death in outdated equipment and caused 1.000's of deaths of innocent civilians. But that's another story.

 

[Giraffe]

RIP Worthing green space

 

[Seaview Seagull]

Life is about opinions and this is my opinion, and if you don't like what I post it say you know where the ignore button is.
FWIW Starmer is one of the biggest liars this country will ever see.
Obviously the biggest liar is Blair who sent innocent troops to their death in outdated equipment and caused 1.000's of deaths of innocent civilians. But that's another story.

Ok I'll bite. Where is Boris in your list of liars? Or don't you think Tory lies count.?

 

[Machiavelli]

Life is about opinions and this is my opinion, and if you don't like what I post it say you know where the ignore button is.
FWIW Starmer is one of the biggest liars this country will ever see.
Obviously the biggest liar is Blair who sent innocent troops to their death in outdated equipment and caused 1.000's of deaths of innocent civilians. But that's another story.

I was prompting you to offer your opinion on a particular topic, but you've just diverted onto something else. I'll try again:
you don't seem to like Labour's plan for renewable electricity generation: do you think that we shouldn't have electricity? if you think we should have electricity, which source would you prefer it to come from?