The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[Hampster Gull]

The state isn't perfect but big business is as wasteful...it's just in different ways. And it is probably allowed a lot more slack as its not seen as "our" money that's being wasted. But it often is our money just not direct tax

Very sensible response get onto the craft beer

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Possibly watching the Chelsea match. You?

Red wine and a Kompakt Records sampler actually.

 

[crookie]

I think most of us can agree that there are plenty of instances of waste be it the NHS, local and national government and businesses large and small. Unless you see seriously how this waste directly affects your financial circumstances, ie you're a small business owner, people have little real incentive to crack down on it

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

 

[FatSuperman]

Having worked as a contractor (IT Project Management) in both the public and private sector, anecdotally at least I can confirm that yes, large private companies can be incredibly wasteful. But they are nothing, they're minnows, plankton, children, compared to the public sector when it comes to waste. It's like comparing Gillingham ladies under 18 B-team with Barcelona. They can both be frivolous, but they are so far apart there is little point drawing any comparison. You get the occasional upset when a company goes mental, but in the public sector the rare exception is common sense.

In private industry you often get absolutely the wrong people in the wrong jobs. But in the public sector is almost mandated. For example to run a project of w certain budget you need to be a certain grade. Pretty much ignoring any actual suitability for the role. It's why you end up with someone who used to be in charge of amphibian conservation for Devon (grade Y!!) running a large comms system upgrade programme (£25m+). Brilliant.

I've always liked the mantra 'the first rule of government procurement; why have one when you can have two at twice the price'

 

[Hampster Gull]

Having worked as a contractor (IT Project Management) in both the public and private sector, anecdotally at least I can confirm that yes, large private companies can be incredibly wasteful. But they are nothing, they're minnows, plankton, children, compared to the public sector when it comes to waste. It's like comparing Gillingham ladies under 18 B-team with Barcelona. They can both be frivolous, but they are so far apart there is little point drawing any comparison. You get the occasional upset when a company goes mental, but in the public sector the rare exception is common sense.

In private industry you often get absolutely the wrong people in the wrong jobs. But in the public sector is almost mandated. For example to run a project of w certain budget you need to be a certain grade. Pretty much ignoring any actual suitability for the role. It's why you end up with someone who used to be in charge of amphibian conservation for Devon (grade Y!!) running a large comms system upgrade programme (£25m+). Brilliant.

I've always liked the mantra 'the first rule of government procurement; why have one when you can have two at twice the price'

You should post more

 

[FatSuperman]

You should post more

Jesus I'm not so sure about that!

I certainly agree with the consensus here though; whether you are red, blue, yellow, green, purple or other, we definitely need a stronger opposition than Jeremy et al. I wish David Milliband would dive back in. We need a balancing viewpoint and Jeremy is so unelectable it's a joke. He's going to encourage the Conservatives to move right - and nobody wants that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway. Getting back on track. I've literally just voted for Owen Smith.

 

[Hastings gull]

Having worked as a contractor (IT Project Management) in both the public and private sector, anecdotally at least I can confirm that yes, large private companies can be incredibly wasteful. But they are nothing, they're minnows, plankton, children, compared to the public sector when it comes to waste. It's like comparing Gillingham ladies under 18 B-team with Barcelona. They can both be frivolous, but they are so far apart there is little point drawing any comparison. You get the occasional upset when a company goes mental, but in the public sector the rare exception is common sense.

In private industry you often get absolutely the wrong people in the wrong jobs. But in the public sector is almost mandated. For example to run a project of w certain budget you need to be a certain grade. Pretty much ignoring any actual suitability for the role. It's why you end up with someone who used to be in charge of amphibian conservation for Devon (grade Y!!) running a large comms system upgrade programme (£25m+). Brilliant.

I've always liked the mantra 'the first rule of government procurement; why have one when you can have two at twice the price'

Excellent post -any system where it is not your own money is bound to be more wasteful -there is always the perceived bottomless pit called the taxpayer. My daughter is with a large public sector employer and my son in law with a thriving private company. It is amazing to see the difference in attitudes, with, to put it mildly, a far more laissez-faire regime in the former. I am also regularly appalled at the wastefulness of the NHS with regard to the medication for my mother. If I spot it, as one example, then presumably so many others must experience waste, but hey ho, someone else is paying for it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Anyway. Getting back on track. I've literally just voted for Owen Smith.

Going by your track record in elections that makes it a sure fire win for Jezza then

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Excellent post -any system where it is not your own money is bound to be more wasteful -there is always the perceived bottomless pit called the taxpayer. My daughter is with a large public sector employer and my son in law with a thriving private company. It is amazing to see the difference in attitudes, with, to put it mildly, a far more laissez-faire regime in the former. I am also regularly appalled at the wastefulness of the NHS with regard to the medication for my mother. If I spot it, as one example, then presumably so many others must experience waste, but hey ho, someone else is paying for it.

I used to work for a Cisco partner that had both private sector and public sector clients. Excluding education which genuinely did seem to care about cost, it was amazing how much money the public sector were prepared throw at solutions. Two examples, a hotel group that had made £10m+ profit the year before penny pinched beyond belief, almost halving the initial spend in total. A government regulator ( think gas ), really didn't care - it had to be the best and shiniest of everything. If you ever need to complain about your gas supplier you should expect the best of service as their IT systems are some of the best !!

 

[wellquickwoody]

Absolute ****ing nonsense. I've worked in the private sector and the waste in companies big and small is eye watering.

Sometimes it is yes, but it is jack sxxt compared to that in the public sector.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Anyway. Getting back on track. I've literally just voted for Owen Smith.

That's interesting and actually gives me some hope for the future of the Labour Party. From memory,you previously supported JC ? Can I ask what changed your mind ?

 

[jakarta]

Sometimes it is yes, but it is jack sxxt compared to that in the public sector.

Presume this isn't breaching the Official Secrets Act!

I worked for the AWE as a contractor on a (long demolished) site in South Wales back in the 1990's.

They had a load of very expensive CNC Machines in a workshop which had been cutting Beryllium based components. Beryllium dust is carcinogenic.

The task required took a few weeks, total machining time (being CNC Machines it was recorded) a few hours only. There was a small amount of swarf and dust inside the machines. However, they were written off as 'contaminated', wrapped up and buried as Special Waste, all at massive expense.

I asked why they couldn't just have been wiped down and swabbed to prove they were no longer contaminated.

They have been paid for already was the reply.

Yes, yes they were, by You and Me...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's interesting and actually gives me some hope for the future of the Labour Party. From memory,you previously supported JC ? Can I ask what changed your mind ?

I did support JC, and voted him in last time. Put simply, it's his inability to lead. I agree with, and support, most of his ideology but he has shown he is unable to lead the parliamentary Labour Party. His position is therefore, and I say this with a heavy heart, untenable. I'm aware some think it's the parliamentary Labour Party who are letting him down but either way to win an election you need, at the very least, your party members and MPs on board. For whatever reason he doesn't have this.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I did support JC, and voted him in last time. Put simply, it's his inability to lead. I agree with, and support, most of his ideology but he has shown he is unable to lead the parliamentary Labour Party. His position is therefore, and I say this with a heavy heart, untenable. I'm aware some think it's the parliamentary Labour Party who are letting him down but either way to win an election you need, at the very least, your party members and MPs on board. For whatever reason he doesn't have this.

Let's hope your pragmatism is the norm rather than the exception. If not then I predict that the Liberals will become the official opposition and the rump of Socialist Worker infiltrated Labour under JC will disappear to the back benches for ever.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

I did support JC, and voted him in last time. Put simply, it's his inability to lead. I agree with, and support, most of his ideology but he has shown he is unable to lead the parliamentary Labour Party. His position is therefore, and I say this with a heavy heart, untenable. I'm aware some think it's the parliamentary Labour Party who are letting him down but either way to win an election you need, at the very least, your party members and MPs on board. For whatever reason he doesn't have this.

Corbyn clearly isn't ideal but I think you are wrong if you believe a vote for Smith will get Smith (who is an empty suit anyway). It's much more likely a vote for Smith will get you Kendall or Umunna in the fullness of time, the PLP and NEC will gut the democratisation of the party as well. I don't believe you want that.

Does Smith have the members on side? We will know in a week.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Let's hope your pragmatism is the norm rather than the exception. If not then I predict that the Liberals will become the official opposition and the rump of Socialist Worker infiltrated Labour under JC will disappear to the back benches for ever.

The Liberals will become the official opposition, have you heard their leader say anything of significance at all? Who is he again? What utter tosh.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Anyway. Getting back on track. I've literally just voted for Owen Smith.

I did support JC, and voted him in last time. Put simply, it's his inability to lead. I agree with, and support, most of his ideology but he has shown he is unable to lead the parliamentary Labour Party. His position is therefore, and I say this with a heavy heart, untenable. I'm aware some think it's the parliamentary Labour Party who are letting him down but either way to win an election you need, at the very least, your party members and MPs on board. For whatever reason he doesn't have this.

For some reason the phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic' springs to mind.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The Liberals will become the official opposition, have you heard their leader say anything of significance at all? Who is he again? What utter tosh.

The SNP recently put in a request to the Speaker to become the Official Opposition as JC was unable to fill the 80 odd posts in the Shadow Cabinet. Labour is currently in a very privileged position in scrutinizing Government policy and the possibility of them losing that status is already being discussed. I am a lot more impressed by Tim Farron than by anything I see on the Labour front bench. I wouldnt vote for them but they campaign strongly at election time and would be a natural home for the legions of disaffected middle class pro Europeans. These are the people who may swing marginal seats. If you don't see the risk to Labour's status as Official Opposition then you are sleepwalking into disaster.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

The SNP recently put in a request to the Speaker to become the Official Opposition as JC was unable to fill the 80 odd posts in the Shadow Cabinet. Labour is currently in a very privileged position in scrutinizing Government policy and the possibility of them losing that status is already being discussed. I am a lot more impressed by Tim Farron than by anything I see on the Labour front bench. I wouldnt vote for them but they campaign strongly at election time and would be a natural home for the legions of disaffected middle class pro Europeans. These are the people who may swing marginal seats. If you don't see the risk to Labour's status as Official Opposition then you are sleepwalking into disaster.

What has Farron done to impress you because I honestly haven't seen him in the press at all other than to praise Blair.