[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Hampster Gull]

Nope you are right, but neither party can moan or complain if we leave without a deal.

No one is asking them to be tied by the hip, but to give way on a couple of seats helps both parties end game.

Fair enough

 

[lawros left foot]

I said power.

The voting changes has swung power away the more centre leaning parliamentary Labour Party.

It’s a party of extremists that won’t win power until they lean back to the centre left.

The Labour Party is historically a socialist party, it is now back where it should be. If there is a need in this country for a centre left party, then people should start one, not try to change the whole raison d’etre of the established Labour Party.

Oh, I forgot, a new centrist party was started in the Spring, what were they called, Change?

I wonder what ever happened to them?

 

[Hampster Gull]

The Labour Party is historically a socialist party, it is now back where it should be. If there is a need in this country for a centre left party, then people should start one, not try to change the whole raison d’etre of the established Labour Party.

Oh, I forgot, a new centrist party was started in the Spring, what were they called, Change?

I wonder what ever happened to them?

Yes, I can understand the view that the last 30 years is the blip not the norm. Let’s see how this version of the socialist doctrine get on in the vote. Poorly I suspect

 

[Weststander]

Tried to watch the Andrew Marr show this morning (session with each leader a bit like the QT programme the other night) objectively and without getting annoyed. Failed. One-line summary :

Rayner - ****ing hell she is throw-stuff-at-the-telly ANNOYING. Won't answer a question and constantly raises her voice over the presenter when being asked something she can't answer
Gove - patronising and smug, tried to divert every question on Tory policy to what Labour were doing. Similar to QT, though, Marr interrupted him far more than he did Rayner (or Gove was less rude and allowed him to perhaps)
Swinson - deeply unimpressive. Simple questions had her floundering
Plaid Cymru bloke - seemed to at least talk some sense but who even cares really

Totally agree about Rayner, and the awful Richard Burgon and Rachel Reeves. They can barely string a sentence together, each personifying classic politicians slyness and each rude interrupters. Vote losers.

Why the hell aren't the eloquent and imho trustworthy; Kinnock, Benn, Kyle, Ellman, Creagh, Harman, Flint, Bradshaw, Kendall .... being pushed at broadcasters?

If Johnson wins, Momentum need to navel-gaze, and start using the talents being shunted to one side this time around. Frighteningly, they may plough on the same.

 

[lawros left foot]

Yes, I can understand the view that the last 30 years is the blip not the norm. Let’s see how this version of the socialist doctrine get on in the vote. Poorly I suspect

And what would you make of Labour completely selling out their principles (again).
I can imagine the joy that the Tories would have in pointing out what a hypocrite Corbyn is, abandoning everything he has ever believed in for a shot in power. People would begin to think he was a Liberal Democrat if that was the case.
You have to stick to your principles, otherwise,you might as well give it up, and go back to your allotment.

 

[lawros left foot]

The Liberals aren’t a subset of the Labour Party, they stand on their own and agenda. You should be screaming out against the FPTP electoral system, which I presume you voted against when it there was a referendum

As Labour aren’t a middle of the road party( anymore)
You believe it’s okay for the LDs to be faithful to their philosophy and agenda, but, you criticise Labour for doing the same thing.

Btw, I voted for PR in the referendum.
It is fairer.

 

[Weststander]

And what would you make of Labour completely selling out their principles (again).
I can imagine the joy that the Tories would have in pointing out what a hypocrite Corbyn is, abandoning everything he has ever believed in for a shot in power. People would begin to think he was a Liberal Democrat if that was the case.
You have to stick to your principles, otherwise,you might as well give it up, and go back to your allotment.

It's not an ideological game of (alleged) principles.

Labour need to gain power, only by winning over most of middle England.

John Smith, Donald Dewar, Alistair Campbell, John Reid, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, all got that in spades.

Were you genuinely unhappy at the time with their work for the UK from say 1997 to 2007?

If Johnson wins, this Momentum experiment has left the vulnerable up shite creek.

 

[theonlymikey]

IFS rips into Tories spending pledges.

At least labour tried to raise money for their spending promises.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[lawros left foot]

Totally agree about Rayner, and the awful Richard Burgon and Rachel Reeves. They can barely string a sentence together, each personifying classic politicians slyness and each rude interrupters. Vote losers.

Why the hell aren't the eloquent and imho trustworthy; Kinnock, Benn, Kyle, Ellman, Creagh, Harman, Flint, Bradshaw, Kendall .... being pushed at broadcasters?

If Johnson wins, Momentum need to navel-gaze, and start using the talents being shunted to one side this time around. Frighteningly, they may plough on the same.

Maybe, because those mentioned won’t campaign on a proper socialist ticket, but, enjoy the lifestyle of an MP too much to give it up.

 

[lawros left foot]

It's not an ideological game of (alleged) principles.

Labour need to gain power, only by winning over most of middle England.

John Smith, Donald Dewar, Alistair Campbell, John Reid, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, all got that in spades.

Were you genuinely unhappy at the time with their work for the UK from say 1997 to 2007?

If Johnson wins, this Momentum experiment has left the vulnerable up shite creek.

That is where you are wrong, it is about ideology. Don’t you think Thatcher was an ideologue?
Blair was as well, although his wasn’t a Labour ideology. My whole point is, Labour is a left wing party, it was created as a left wing party, the grassroots have always been left wing, if they went to a middle of the road centrist party, more to the right than Blair, there would be absolutely no point in continuing as the Labour Party.
People who want that should join a proper right of centre party, the Lib Dem’s.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Totally agree about Rayner, and the awful Richard Burgon and Rachel Reeves. They can barely string a sentence together, each personifying classic politicians slyness and each rude interrupters. Vote losers.

Why the hell aren't the eloquent and imho trustworthy; Kinnock, Benn, Kyle, Ellman, Creagh, Harman, Flint, Bradshaw, Kendall .... being pushed at broadcasters?

If Johnson wins, Momentum need to navel-gaze, and start using the talents being shunted to one side this time around. Frighteningly, they may plough on the same.

I would think that those you mention are not used as they are not on message enough. You can add my MP, Laura Pidcock, into your list of very annoying interviewees.

 

[ozzygull]

I said power.

The voting changes has swung power away the more centre leaning parliamentary Labour Party.

It’s a party of extremists that won’t win power until they lean back to the centre left.

I will vote for Labour Party (never before) and not extreme in anyway, apart from the fact I would rather boil my own head then vote for current Tory party (so maybe extreme as you say) the reason is not because I want free things as I don’t think I would benefit personally from them. I am going to because I am sick of the increase of food poverty and food bank use.

In fact what turned me was I saw a program on tv about people with a missing a leg being told they were not disabled enough any more for car mobility allowance. So they lost a their car that had been adapted for them. They then lost their ability to get to their job and lost that as well. This is the mean spirited country we live in now under Tory austerity. The fact that it defied all logic made incredibly cross. Then there was the 80 year old lady who bought her council flat in London years ago who had paid it off and was happy but developers want to knock it down and build new flats, but the money they offer her for old flat meant she could not afford a new one where she was happy, they told her she should get a mortgage to cover the difference. The Tory councillor approving this gentrification.

Now maybe I am extreme but those two examples really annoyed me, maybe injustice is not a problem for some people, as long as it is not effecting them. People have taken their lives because universal credit, just one person being that desperate is one too many for me.

I willing to take the risk of a left wing Labour Party to put right some of these wrongs. I really do not think in a four year term they could do that much damage and there is a chance things maybe be a bit better for a lot of people.A Tory majority with the current self serving aholes scares the hell out of me.

 

[Weststander]

IFS rips into Tories spending pledges.

At least labour tried to raise money for their spending promises.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

You obviously didn’t read the IFS assessment of the Labour manifesto, the huge shortfalls and their not costing the effect of keeping state pension age at 66.

Why did you fail to do that?

 

[ofco8]

The poll attached to original OP puzzles me.

It says this poll ends in mid December but the numbers don't seem to have changed since the day I voted, a few weeks ago.

Does that mean that all those that intend to vote on it have already done so, so it will not change?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

No idea why a party led by a terrorist sympathising Marxist, mired in antisemitism and promising to create the biggest tax burden since World War II is struggling to attract support from the Great British public

I have to say I don't feel that anyone is remotely wound up by posts like this, but I do feel a little bit sorry for you. I know it's not much but I hope that it helps.

I'm off round the corner with my family for an end-of-weekend drink in one of the loveliest village pubs in our part of Sussex. I hope you have a rewarding evening too.

 

[beorhthelm]

IFS rips into Tories spending pledges.

At least labour tried to raise money for their spending promises.

"rips" is strong, more like a metaphorical shoulder shrug. there's bearly any spending increases.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I will vote for Labour Party (never before) and not extreme in anyway, apart from the fact I would rather boil my own head then vote for current Tory party (so maybe extreme as you say) the reason is not because I want free things as I don’t think I would benefit personally from them. I am going to because I am sick of the increase of food poverty and food bank use.

In fact what turned me was I saw a program on tv about people with a missing a leg being told they were not disabled enough any more for car mobility allowance. So they lost a their car that had been adapted for them. They then lost their ability to get to their job and lost that as well. This is the mean spirited country we live in now under Tory austerity. The fact that it defied all logic made incredibly cross. Then there was the 80 year old lady who bought her council flat in London years ago who had paid it off and was happy but developers want to knock it down and build new flats, but the money they offer her for old flat meant she could not afford a new one where she was happy, they told her she should get a mortgage to cover the difference. The Tory councillor approving this gentrification.

Now maybe I am extreme but those two examples really annoyed me, maybe injustice is not a problem for some people, as long as it is not effecting them. People have taken their lives because universal credit, just one person being that desperate is one too many for me.

I willing to take the risk of a left wing Labour Party to put right some of these wrongs. I really do not think in a four year term they could do that much damage and there is a chance things maybe be a bit better for a lot of people.A Tory majority with the current self serving aholes scares the hell out of me.

If you believe the leadership of this current Labour Party can address the issues you outline then you’re making the right call. I don’t think they can by any stretch. But I have similar view as you I suspect on the current Tory leadership.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

IFS rips into Tories spending pledges.

At least labour tried to raise money for their spending promises.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

If a single Budget had contained all these tax and spending proposals we would have been calling it modest. - IFS on Tory manifesto

take our tax burden to its highest level in history..... does not stand up to scrutiny ... almost certainly going to have to raise broad-based taxes - IFS on Labour Manifesto

Riptastic ...

 

[Bold Seagull]

That is where you are wrong, it is about ideology. Don’t you think Thatcher was an ideologue?
Blair was as well, although his wasn’t a Labour ideology. My whole point is, Labour is a left wing party, it was created as a left wing party, the grassroots have always been left wing, if they went to a middle of the road centrist party, more to the right than Blair, there would be absolutely no point in continuing as the Labour Party.
People who want that should join a proper right of centre party, the Lib Dem’s.

Hear hear. Nothing particularly extreme or hard about Labour's policies. The 2017 manifesto wasn't that much different from Ed Milliband's, and this one just builds on the previous two. Too many who won't even read it happy to be fed what is discussed in the media.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It's not an ideological game of (alleged) principles.

Labour need to gain power, only by winning over most of middle England.

John Smith, Donald Dewar, Alistair Campbell, John Reid, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, all got that in spades.

Were you genuinely unhappy at the time with their work for the UK from say 1997 to 2007?

If Johnson wins, this Momentum experiment has left the vulnerable up shite creek.

Spot on as usual. The hard left have taken power of the party. And that’s fine, it just looks like the majority of the country isn’t as left wing as they are. The shadow chancellor waving the little red book in parliament says it all. It took them some embarrassing elections until they clocked it last time and moved to a centre left approach that enabled them to deploy some of their policies.