[Politics] The General Election Thread

[JC Footy Genius]

I have to say I don't feel that anyone is remotely wound up by posts like this, but I do feel a little bit sorry for you. I know it's not much but I hope that it helps.

I'm off round the corner with my family for an end-of-weekend drink in one of the loveliest village pubs in our part of Sussex. I hope you have a rewarding evening too.

Well, at least I got one bite .. eventually.

Have fun.

 

[Weststander]

If a single Budget had contained all these tax and spending proposals we would have been calling it modest. - IFS on Tory manifesto

take our tax burden to its highest level in history..... does not stand up to scrutiny ... almost certainly going to have to raise broad-based taxes - IFS on Labour Manifesto

Riptastic ...

Also:

“Keeping the state pension age at 66 would be costly, potentially adding around £24 billion per year to the cost of state pensions by the late 2050s. This would be on top of the dramatic, £38 billion per year, increase in spending on state pensions projected even with the planned increase in the SPA to 69.”. In essence that £24B a year is completely unfunded, but not so much as a mention in McDonnell’s plans.

“To the extent that corporation tax falls on company shareholders, that includes everyone with a defined contribution pension. And in practice much of the burden will be passed on to companies’ employees through lower wages, and customers through higher prices – and that means all of us”.

“In the short run, the increase in the rate of corporation tax might bring in the £20 billion Labour says. In the long run it would bring in less, as a less competitive rate would reduce investment, and therefore productivity and wages, in the UK”. That is, companies and potential new companies coming to the UK, will vote with their feet. Those staying, will simply invest less.


The IFS’s expert eye has pulled apart the Tory and Labour financial plans. These are huge discrepancies, it’s not a joke.

 

[theonlymikey]

You obviously didn’t read the IFS assessment of the Labour manifesto, the huge shortfalls and their not costing the effect of keeping state pension age at 66.

Why did you fail to do that?

I did read it. What has The IFS assessment of Tory promises got to do with Labour?

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[theonlymikey]

If a single Budget had contained all these tax and spending proposals we would have been calling it modest. - IFS on Tory manifesto

take our tax burden to its highest level in history..... does not stand up to scrutiny ... almost certainly going to have to raise broad-based taxes - IFS on Labour Manifesto

Riptastic ...

You must have missed this part. Or more likely you intentionally left it out.

"The*Institute for Fiscal Studies*(IFS) has accused the*Conservatives*of pushing a “fundamentally damaging narrative” in promising more money for health, pensions and schools without raising the money in tax, NIC or VAT to pay for them"

Fundamentally damaging.

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[beorhthelm]

You must have missed this part. Or more likely you intentionally left it out.

"The*Institute for Fiscal Studies*(IFS) has accused the*Conservatives*of pushing a “fundamentally damaging narrative” in promising more money for health, pensions and schools without raising the money in tax, NIC or VAT to pay for them"

Fundamentally damaging.

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that narrative is common across all the political parties, widely recognised and discussed on this thread. the politicans want to promise the population more services without the courage to ask us to pay more to provide them.

 

[Weststander]

I did read it. What has The IFS assessment of Tory promises got to do with Labour?

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You don’t even remember what you posted this evening:

“At least labour tried to raise money for their spending promises”. The IFS found gaping holes, colossal sums, in the Labour calculations. Read various posts above passing on the IFS assessment.

There are some intelligent people in this thread willing to listen to the IFS in taking apart both main parties. Join them.

 

[ManOfSussex]

You obviously didn’t read the IFS assessment of the Labour manifesto, the huge shortfalls and their not costing the effect of keeping state pension age at 66.

Why did you fail to do that?

I appreciate you voted remain and will vote for Lucas in the election, I appreciate as a then Labour party member I voted 'Labour' blindly in 1997 in your constituency of Brighton Pavilion, I fully appreciate that coming from a deprived coastal town, that voted 55% leave in 2016, that has a child poverty rate 8% above the national average since full Universal Credit roll out, that all my my family bar me and my brother hail from north of the Watford gap, so I'm a Corbyista/Corbynite or whatever the innocuous insult is and I therefore inhabit a bubble, but you're really getting boring now, which is a pity because you're generally a decent poster. #justsaying

 

[Weststander]

I appreciate you voted remain and will vote for Lucas in the election, I appreciate as a then Labour party member I vote 'Labour' blindly in 1997 in your constituency of Brighton Pavilion, I fully appreciate that coming from a deprived coastal town, that voted 55% leave in 2016, that has a child poverty rate 8% above the national average since full Universal Credit roll out, that all my my family bar me and my brother hail from north of the Watford gap, so I'm a Corbyista/Corbynite or whatever the innocuous insult is and I therefore inhabit a bubble, but you're really getting boring now, which is a pity because you're generally a decent poster. #justsaying

Because I disagree with people raving about the Labour spend-tax plans? I’ll keep posting if I see left or right blinkered baloney. I’ve always respected the work of the IFS, the other think tanks normally have a political angle. The Tory and Labour manifestos do not add up, we have the right to discuss that any time we please.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Because I disagree with people raving about the Labour spend-tax plans? I’ll keep posting if I see left or right blinkered baloney. I’ve always respected the work of the IFS, the other think tanks normally have a political angle. The Tory and Labour manifestos do not add up, we have the right to discuss that any time we please.

Fair enough. I've seen a defence of sorts I suppose on here, of Labour's manifesto, but not a raving of it.

Caroline Lucas as constituency MP or not, you're voting Green Party at the election though and that manifesto ticket compared to Labour's makes Labour look tightwads.

 

[Weststander]

Fair enough. I've seen a defence of sorts I suppose on here, of Labour's manifesto, but not a raving of it.

Caroline Lucas as constituency MP or not, you're voting Green Party at the election though and that manifesto ticket compared to Labour's makes Labour look tightwads.

A staunch Labour/Tory-hating colleague of mine of 20 years, a Brightonian, hated the Green Party with a passion. He always said they’re an extreme left wing party, which had cutely picked up the environmental lobby, to get a foothold in the UK. His loathing stemmed from them taking 10,000’s of Labour votes in Pavilion and Kemp Town.

The Greens won’t hold true power at Westminster, it allows me to latch on to their unparalleled policies on the countryside, pollution, man’s destruction of the planet, animal welfare, blood sports, etc. They means a lot to me, but sadly I guess that most people in this country don’t give a shit about foxes, badgers, wildlife.

I realise their economic policies are not dissimilar to Labour’s, but a bit like Plaid Cymru and Brexit Party, they’ll never get a chance to enact them.

My ideal, but now unobtainable in this very polarised country and NSC! An increase in basic rate income tax for us all of a few percent to start dealing with homelessness, housing, NHS wages, NHS infrastructure, the vulnerable and isolated, etc. With the toughest clampdown yet on tax cheating multinationals, offshore tax arrangements.

 

[theonlymikey]

You don’t even remember what you posted this evening:

“At least labour tried to raise money for their spending promises”. The IFS found gaping holes, colossal sums, in the Labour calculations. Read various posts above passing on the IFS assessment.

There are some intelligent people in this thread willing to listen to the IFS in taking apart both main parties. Join them.

I said at least labour tried to raise the cash. Just because the IFS didn't think it was credible doesn't meant they didn't try.

So I'll ask again. What has The assessment of Tory spending got to do with Labour?

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[Weststander]

I said at least labour tried to raise the cash. Just because the IFS didn't think it was credible doesn't meant they didn't try.

So I'll ask again. What has The assessment of Tory spending got to do with Labour?

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You mentioned both the Tories and Labour in your original post.

 

[theonlymikey]

Made a mistake

 

[theonlymikey]

You mentioned both the Tories and Labour in your original post.

Yes I did, loosely. The theme of the post was about Tories though, and you made little or no reference to that

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[Wrong-Direction]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ite-fact-check-general-election-a9212076.html

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[Weststander]

Yes I did, loosely. The theme of the post was about Tories though, and you made little or no reference to that

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We’re going round in circles. I also said that the IFS had taken the Tory plans apart. Let’s drawn a line in the sand.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ite-fact-check-general-election-a9212076.html

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[ManOfSussex]

A staunch Labour/Tory-hating colleague of mine of 20 years, a Brightonian, hated the Green Party with a passion. He always said they’re an extreme left wing party, which had cutely picked up the environmental lobby, to get a foothold in the UK. His loathing stemmed from them taking 10,000’s of Labour votes in Pavilion and Kemp Town.

The Greens won’t hold true power at Westminster, it allows me to latch on to their unparalleled policies on the countryside, pollution, man’s destruction of the planet, animal welfare, blood sports, etc. They means a lot to me, but sadly I guess that most people in this country don’t give a shit about foxes, badgers, wildlife.

I realise their economic policies are not dissimilar to Labour’s, but a bit like Plaid Cymru and Brexit Party, they’ll never get a chance to enact them.

My ideal, but now unobtainable in this very polarised country and NSC! An increase in basic rate income tax for us all of a few percent to start dealing with homelessness, housing, NHS wages, NHS infrastructure, the vulnerable and isolated, etc. With the toughest clampdown yet on tax cheating multinationals, offshore tax arrangements.

I don't disagree with what you've said there. As an 18 year old voting for David Lepper in 1997 though, I thought elections changed the world for a while. Never mind.

 

[Weststander]

I don't disagree with what you've said there. As an 18 year old voting for David Lepper in 1997 though, I thought elections changed the world for a while. Never mind.

Entirely disillusioned with John Major’s inept premiership (he’s only liked now, because Remainers have warmed to him), I also voted Labour in 1997. Des Turner in Kemp Town. The first thing I liked about that night was that Blair didn’t launch a bad-winner tirade against any non-Labour parts of society, into a class war. I like consensus.

Now, this country’s the exact opposite.

 

[Hampster Gull]

As Labour aren’t a middle of the road party( anymore)
You believe it’s okay for the LDs to be faithful to their philosophy and agenda, but, you criticise Labour for doing the same thing.

Btw, I voted for PR in the referendum.
It is fairer.

I criticise many of the current Labour policies that’s all. For me the Labour Party of the last c30 years was a credible alternative in what is broadly two party system. They aren’t now. I can see those that prefer a more extreme left wing agenda will be happy. Fine, but I suspect that until the Tories completely mess up they aren’t going to get a chance to enact.