[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Bold Seagull]

There are substantial differences between McDonnell's proposals and the Employee Share Ownership Schemes that many companies already run. Not least of all, under McDonnell's plan, divis to employees are limited to £500 with the rest going to the Treasury! It is basically a revenue raising exercise.
Do some research and you will see that his plan isn' t that brilliant ..........even the Guardian had a pop!

My point wasn't as to whether the plan is brilliant, my point was whether it represented Marxism or Communism. You can call it bad, stealth taxation, or whatever, but it still ain't Marxism.

 

[narly101]

You forgot to switch accounts.

oh bollox

 

[Hastings gull]

When has Corbyn intimated he wants to ban private ownership of anything? He wants to nationalise / renationalise some utilities and transport options, but he's not saying he's nationalising your car / house / beer / season ticket.

Of course he isn't with an election looming - he will delay further nationalisations until he gets into power.

 

[Weststander]

Of course he isn't with an election looming - he will delay further nationalisations until he gets into power.

Will he get into power?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Of course he isn't with an election looming - he will delay further nationalisations until he gets into power.

If the ones he is already proposing will bankrupt the country according to the right wing press...how will he do more?

Either the ones he is proposing work and he gets to do more, or they won't and he won't be able to. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Live by the sea]

I really wish we could get a decent Labour Party back. With Corbyn in charge labour have gone downhill very fast to the point that Corbyn is not electable even by voters that are lifelong labour voters.

I would literally vote either Conservative or Lib Dem’s just to ensure we don’t have a dangerous loon like Corbyn in power. Very sad state of affairs for moderate left wing voters.

 

[Live by the sea]

If the ones he is already proposing will bankrupt the country according to the right wing press...how will he do more?

Either the ones he is proposing work and he gets to do more, or they won't and he won't be able to. Can't have it both ways.

It’s not only the right wing press who think Corbyn is dangerous in power and could bankrupt our country even the very left wing guardian are not exactly enthusiastic supporters of Corbyn. That should tell you how awful he is both as a politician and a human being .

 

[BLOCK F]

My point wasn't as to whether the plan is brilliant, my point was whether it represented Marxism or Communism. You can call it bad, stealth taxation, or whatever, but it still ain't Marxism.

I am no student of Marxism or Communism, but anyway, McDonnell's scheme has been described as confiscation/appropriation of someone else's assets by several financial commentators.
You may not have said directly the plan is brilliant, but you were pretty fulsome in your praise for similar schemes elsewhere.I do not know the details of those schemes, but I do wonder whether they are really like McDonnell's wheeze.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It’s not only the right wing press who think Corbyn is dangerous in power and could bankrupt our country even the very left wing guardian are bit exactly enthusiastic supporters of Corbyn. That should tell you how awful he is both as a politician and a human being .

Guardian isn't always 'very left wing'. It backed Liberal Democrats in 2010. In 2017 while it came out for Labour, the Guardian did also support Libs and Greens. They have various views on Corbyn from zealots to centrists.

 

[BLOCK F]

Will he get into power?

I certainly hope not!

 

[theonlymikey]

Aaron banks can't verify himself as the account holder apparently [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Of course he isn't with an election looming - he will delay further nationalisations until he gets into power.

Sake.



And once the Tory party are in power, they'll reveal their full colours and start rounding up foreigners, communists, intellectuals and gypsies and putting them in concentration camps.

Is that how this game works?.

 

[Hastings gull]

Sake.



And once the Tory party are in power, they'll reveal their full colours and start rounding up foreigners, communists, intellectuals and gypsies and putting them in concentration camps.

Is that how this game works?.

Extremely sake.

 

[Live by the sea]

Sake.



And once the Tory party are in power, they'll reveal their full colours and start rounding up foreigners, communists, intellectuals and gypsies and putting them in concentration camps.

Is that how this game works?.

This post from hans kraay surely wins the moronic post of the week ... idiotic

 

[Hastings gull]

If the ones he is already proposing will bankrupt the country according to the right wing press...how will he do more?

Either the ones he is proposing work and he gets to do more, or they won't and he won't be able to. Can't have it both ways.

But they will certainly try! If only you could have seen and experienced East Germany.

 

[BLOCK F]

If the ones he is already proposing will bankrupt the country according to the right wing press...how will he do more?

Either the ones he is proposing work and he gets to do more, or they won't and he won't be able to. Can't have it both ways.

I'd rather not risk the country being subjected to this socialist experiment in the first place.
Hopefully, they will never get the chance to put it to the test.

 

[beorhthelm]

We'll have to wait and see the detail, but the policy is that companies with 250 or more staff place 10% of their shares into a fund where the workforce share the dividends from that fund. It isn't actually a proposed change of ownership of those shares. The implication is the company still retains ownership, but is obliged to commit them to a fund. So not Marxism then afterall.

This already happens in other countries like Germany (it is not a revolutionary idea) and far from stifling growth or investment, it has been found to encourage longer term thinking, motivates workers increasing productivity, and in turn attracts investment into companies with stable invested workforces.

Or rather than an evidence and research based approach, you could just irrationally say 'Marxism or Communism'. Up to you really.

firstly of course its a change of ownership of the shares, how could it be anything else? equity the company owns must be transfered to the fund, which would be owned/controlled by a different legal entity (union or government). secondly this isnt done anywhere else. there are cooperative ownership schemes that are voluntary, but not through compulsion. share owning democracy is certainly a good idea thoug, lets see policies that encourage that voluntarily.
here's a question, how long do you think it will take for the 250 employee limited to be lowered, after all its not very fair on all those that work for smaller companies not to get their fair share is it? or should the whole population get dividends from fund? may be this could pay for universal basic income.

 

[Weststander]

I'd rather not risk the country being subjected to this socialist experiment in the first place.
Hopefully, they will never get the chance to put it to the test.

The betting markets deem a Labour overall majority a very remote possibility. McDonnell’s very best hope is a confidence-and-supply arrangement, where the LibDems and SNP will consider their standpoint on virtually every single bill. Comes at a price, as they will demand policies, bills and referenda to their liking. Both parties have explicitly and emphatically ruled out being in a coalition with Labour.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Sake.



And once the Tory party are in power, they'll reveal their full colours and start rounding up foreigners, communists, intellectuals and gypsies and putting them in concentration camps.

Is that how this game works?.

I'm not sure on the rules of this game, but you only need to remember that this a Tory Party described as:

'Hard right' by a former Chancellor and Foreign Secretary of it.
'Islamophobic' by a former party chair.
'English nationalist' by an outgoing Welsh Tory MP.
That's seemingly prepared to pursue at best a hard Brexit or at worse the lunatic fantasy of a no deal one again in a year's time with all the economic, diplomatic, societal and reputational fall out that entails.
That has a leader and central policy endorsed by Nigel Farage.
That has a leader endorsed by Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.
That has a leader who has his name chanted on the streets of London by the far right.

 

[BensGrandad]

The Green Party have issued their manifesto and it includes votes for 16 year olds. I always thought that they were living in a world of fantasy and virtual crackpots, this proves it. How many 16 year olds are capable of offering a sensible realistic view but perhaps that is what The Green Party hope for, to get seats through ignorance.