[Politics] The General Election Thread

[BLOCK F]

Nonsense. Foot's manifesto included the nationalisation of aerospace, telecoms, the steel industry and shipbuilding (none of which have been suggested by Labour), it included the abolition of the House of Lords (again, not expected to be part of the manifesto), a big increase in corporation tax from its 30% (Labour's last manifesto also increased this tax but to 26%), a wealth tax (not expected to be part of the manifesto) and five year national plan, drawn up in conjunction with the trade unions (not expected ...blah, blah)

As i said, Labour's last manifesto is not that different from the situation in Germany - it's a long, long way from Foot's vision.

And a lot of bloody good it did him, didn't it!
Argue all you like, but Corbyn and McDonnell are far left by most reasonable and accepted measures.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Sigh …. we didn't use our veto as ALL members of the EU at the time had the option to join or not join the Euro …. it was entirely optional. Our veto is an instrument to block policy in SOME areas ( not all ) ….. we didn't use it to stay out of the Euro.

I'll repeat it again as you don't seem to have read what you quoted

Because we used our opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty and therefore vetoed the use of the Euro and kept Sterling.

But of course, I would expect you to keep sighing and wittering on, because yet again you've got right to the crux of this whole General Election/Brexit lark

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Nonsense. Foot's manifesto included the nationalisation of aerospace, telecoms, the steel industry and shipbuilding (none of which have been suggested by Labour), it included the abolition of the House of Lords (again, not expected to be part of the manifesto), a big increase in corporation tax from its 30% (Labour's last manifesto also increased this tax but to 26%), a wealth tax (not expected to be part of the manifesto) and five year national plan, drawn up in conjunction with the trade unions (not expected ...blah, blah)

As i said, Labour's last manifesto is not that different from the situation in Germany - it's a long, long way from Foot's vision.

Nonsense, you are judging their place on the left wing spectrum solely based on manifestos at very different periods in time.

Corbyn was more left wing than Foot which is why Corbyn rebelled against Foot when he was leader supporting Tony Benn's (more left wing) challenge to Dennis Healey (too right wing) as Deputy Leader.

It always amuses me how Labour supporters know the Tories real motives no matter what's written in their manifesto (privatise NHS, Singapore on Thames etc) but ignore the vast back catalogue of evidence that clearly shows the current leadership of Labour aren't motivated by fluffy social democratic principles. How many social democrats do you know that want to overthrow capitalism like the Shadow chancellor?

 

[Gwylan]

I can see your predicament.

I guess it's whether your preference for Johnson, JRM and Cummings over Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott

is greater than

your preference for a Customs Union deal/Remain decided by a second referendum over an Irish Sea border deal/No deal decided by Johnson

Have you thought about a SWOT analysis

I'm not quite sure why McDonnell is treated like some sort of bogey man. I can understand the antipathy to Corbyn, who I agree is not an inspiring leader and doesn't seem the sharpest cookie and I can see why people have the downer on Abbott (rather unfairly, but I can see why).

But McDonnell strikes me as one of the more interesting and substantial politicians in either of the main parties. He's a sharp and lucid media performer (which is why Javid pulled out of a debate with him) and has plenty of innovative ideas.

This idea that he wants to bring down capitalism is about over-stated but he certainly wants to radically transform it. And, when we're still reeling from the effects of the last crash, can you really say that it's working perfectly,

Even people in the City are now listening to what he has to say with interest. It may be a minority view in those circles, but when a City analyst can write that the policies in the last Labour manifesto are less damaging than the Brexit policies proposed by the Tories, the idea that this is some Stalin figure who's going to shoot bankers against the walls of the City look ludicrous.

 

[BLOCK F]

and not forgetting the intellectually challenged who think anything left of Tony Blair is Marxism or outright Communism.

Perhaps they'd benefit from 6 years free education?

Yes, knowing Corbyn, McDonnell and his Momentum chums (possibly including some on here) the six year free education would be re-education in a Labour Boot Camp for non believers in the cult.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I def don`t understand your thinking... More is being achieved in less time ??(Bollocks).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rlie-mayfield-john-lewis-be-the-a7834921.html

“The UK’s productivity is so poor that the average German worker could go home early on Thursday afternoon and still have produced as much as the average Brit who toiled all the way through Friday.”

 

[Gwylan]

Nonsense, you are judging their place on the left wing spectrum solely based on manifestos at very different periods in time.

You were the one who brought up Michael Foot - I was comparing Foot's manifesto with Labour's last one, there's no comparison.

And I was talking more about the current situation, not historically. As I and others have pointed out, Labour's manifesto is pretty mainstream in many (most) European countries - some of them centre-right.

(oh and I'm not a Labour supporter, I can't remember the last time I voted for them)

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Because we used our opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty and therefore vetoed the use of the Euro and kept Sterling.

I did try to warn you that the type of stupidity Ppf was displaying could be infectious

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/veto

Securing an opt out isn't using our veto ... pretending otherwise is quite frankly pathetic. What an embarrassement you are ...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'll repeat it again as you don't seem to have read what you quoted



But of course, I would expect you to keep sighing and wittering on, because yet again you've got right to the crux of this whole General Election/Brexit lark

You can repeat it as much as you like but clearly you don't understand the difference between a technical instrument such as our veto and having an optional choice that every member had.

 

[theonlymikey]

Q: Corbyn has ruled out a second referendum next year. Aren’t you misleading the public by saying otherwise. And is not your deal with the Brexit party just as shady as any Labour/SNP cooperation?

Johnson says the Tories do not do deals.

 

[beorhthelm]

I can see your predicament.

I guess it's whether your preference for Johnson, JRM and Cummings over Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott

is greater than

your preference for a Customs Union deal/Remain decided by a second referendum over an Irish Sea border deal/No deal decided by Johnson

Have you thought about a SWOT analysis

when presented like this, emigration ought to be considered.

 

[WATFORD zero]

when presented like this, emigration ought to be considered.

Where are you thinking of going

 

[nicko31]

Alastair Campbell will campaign for former Tory MP David Gauke.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-13...y-mp-david-gauke-to-get-second-eu-referendum/

A few grown ups still in the room for a few more weeks

 

[BLOCK F]

I'm not quite sure why McDonnell is treated like some sort of bogey man. I can understand the antipathy to Corbyn, who I agree is not an inspiring leader and doesn't seem the sharpest cookie and I can see why people have the downer on Abbott (rather unfairly, but I can see why).

But McDonnell strikes me as one of the more interesting and substantial politicians in either of the main parties. He's a sharp and lucid media performer (which is why Javid pulled out of a debate with him) and has plenty of innovative ideas.

This idea that he wants to bring down capitalism is about over-stated but he certainly wants to radically transform it. And, when we're still reeling from the effects of the last crash, can you really say that it's working perfectly,

Even people in the City are now listening to what he has to say with interest. It may be a minority view in those circles, but when a City analyst can write that the policies in the last Labour manifesto are less damaging than the Brexit policies proposed by the Tories, the idea that this is some Stalin figure who's going to shoot bankers against the walls of the City look ludicrous.

Probably easiest to understand why he is considered a bogeyman if you do your own research on the good old internet. There's plenty there for those who are not of a far left persuasion to get twitchy about.

 

[BLOCK F]

You were the one who brought up Michael Foot - I was comparing Foot's manifesto with Labour's last one, there's no comparison.

And I was talking more about the current situation, not historically. As I and others have pointed out, Labour's manifesto is pretty mainstream in many (most) European countries - some of them centre-right.

(oh and I'm not a Labour supporter, I can't remember the last time I voted for them)

Out of interest, would you be prepared to say who you will be voting for?

 

[beorhthelm]

This idea that he wants to bring down capitalism is about over-stated but he certainly wants to radically transform it.

his own words Marx, Lenin and Trosky are his biggest influences. im sure theres a quote in favour of prolitarian revolution* too (although that may be from Milne).

from the last manifesto, £250bn for spending on unspecified investment and £250bn on a national bank, there is no plan for paying back the borrowing. if we play though it is effectively state control of the economy.

*edit is was "insurrection", here not denied but explained as being a bit excited.
i dont know why people want to refute Mcdonnell's faith in Marxism, if we want to tear down the broken capitalist system we need some alternative right?

 

[BensGrandad]

Just watched the Labour Party Political Broadcast they couldnt even do a decent one of promoting themselves. so what hope of promoting the country.

 

[clapham_gull]

I used to write software for barcode scanners for a very big video tape archive. 100,000s of video clips etc... Possibly over a million.

Didn't actually work for him, but the manager for the time was very progressive. For new staff it went like this:

This isn't a very well paid job and you will be on your feet all day. If you put a tape back in the wrong place or forget to scan it - it can take days to find again.

So this is the deal. I run this place with military precision and expect you to do the same. From Monday to Thursday you will on time and 100% focused. You may have to work overtime.

On Friday (for which you will be paid) you can do what you like. I recommend you come to work and use the internet to find a better paid job.

I'll give you a glowing reference if you play by the rules.

Worked like clockwork in there, never a wasted minute. I miss it.

 

[vegster]

Just watched the Labour Party Political Broadcast they couldnt even do a decent one of promoting themselves. so what hope of promoting the country.

Poor you, if only you had learned how to use your TV remote properly, we can only imagine the trauma and strain you just put your automatic garage door through just now with your manic button pressing....

 

[Weststander]

The LibDems smugly boasting on the TV how they’ve stepped aside in Brighton Pavilion, to give Caroline Lucas a chance as a Remain candidate.

What utter tosh. Lucas already had the seat tied up, her vote is only going to grow in a staunchly Remain constituency. The LibDems are effectively irrelevant in the constituency.

LibDems arrogance.