[Politics] The General Election Thread

[theonlymikey]

YouGov polling shows 65% of the public now in favour of nationalising water, energy and rail.

So we can put to bed the idea the Labour Manifesto was the problem.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

YouGov polling shows 65% of the public now in favour of nationalising water, energy and rail.

So we can put to bed the idea the Labour Manifesto was the problem.

Well not quite.
Everybody I spoke to openly laughed when the Labour manifesto was discussed. The majority of it was pure fantasy, pie in the sky, away with the fairies stuff. Free this, free that. It was just not believable. They thought that they could just bandy huge figures about and the public would swallow it.

 

[Mellotron]

Looks like it'll be BRINO, if Boris wants it done within a year, which he absolutely will.

Ending up in a situation where no one wins, and everyone loses a little.

Well worth it, eh?

 

[shingle]

YouGov polling shows 65% of the public now in favour of nationalising water, energy and rail.

So we can put to bed the idea the Labour Manifesto was the problem.

Ok, I'll bite.

The overwhelming consensus seems to be that you lost because of

1. Corbyn

2. Brexit

3. Nobody believed that you could pay for all your scattergun election promises (upwards of £80 billion + the Waspis payouts) through an increase in Corporation Tax and taxation of the top 5% of earners.

Just out of interest Mikey, why do you think you took such a hammering ?.

 

[theonlymikey]

Ok, I'll bite.

The overwhelming consensus seems to be that you lost because of

1. Corbyn

2. Brexit

3. Nobody believed that you could pay for all your scattergun election promises (upwards of £80 billion + the Waspis payouts) through an increase in Corporation Tax and taxation of the top 5% of earners.

Just out of interest Mikey, why do you think you took such a hammering ?.

Yes I agree.

What I don't agree with is people trying to drag the party back to centrist obscurity when there really is no need.

 

[Lever]

Yes I agree.

What I don't agree with is people trying to drag the party back to centrist obscurity when there really is no need.

I actually believe that two centrist main parties with few differences during the earlier part of this decade was an important factor in the growing discontent of many voters. There was no one representing their interests. Looking at the list.... Corbyn, Brexit and 'scattershot' election promises - it may be that a revival of Labour fortunes is not be as hard as it might seem....

 

[Notters]

Well not quite.
Everybody I spoke to openly laughed when the Labour manifesto was discussed. The majority of it was pure fantasy, pie in the sky, away with the fairies stuff. Free this, free that. It was just not believable. They thought that they could just bandy huge figures about and the public would swallow it.

As opposed to the tory one which promised an increase and a decrease in housebuilding simultaneously (https://www.citymetric.com/politics...increase-and-decrease-rate-housebuilding-4874) 50,000 new nurses of which 30,000 weren't new, and tax cuts with massively increased spending.

I actually believe that two centrist main parties with few differences during the earlier part of this decade was an important factor in the growing discontent of many voters. There was no one representing their interests. Looking at the list.... Corbyn, Brexit and 'scattershot' election promises - it may be that a revival of Labour fortunes is not be as hard as it might seem....

Bang on. The trouble is the current system really only allows for two parties and the centre ground, where frankly around 80% of the population probably sits, is no longer represented.

 

[shingle]

Labour have to move back to a position of a centre left party if they want to be elected. Aside from the Blair victories when Labour were 'Tory Light' they haven't won an election for nearly 50 years, and there's a reason for that and that is the electorate don't like extremists no matter what side of the political divide they're from.

 

[theonlymikey]

As opposed to the tory one which promised an increase and a decrease in housebuilding simultaneously (https://www.citymetric.com/politics...increase-and-decrease-rate-housebuilding-4874) 50,000 new nurses of which 30,000 weren't new, and tax cuts with massively increased spending.



Bang on. The trouble is the current system really only allows for two parties and the centre ground, where frankly around 80% of the population probably sits, is no longer represented.

I mean Lib Dems are centre/centre right?

What do they stand for?

Tories have always been about business and free market. Labour have always been about undoing cuts and trying to reduce inequality and the working class (this election was a one off losing the working class to get brexit done).

But what is the Lib Dems identity? They grew some legs with their shambolic stance on Brexit, but other than that, I haven't got a clue.

I'd rather have the "Boris love bomb" than Lib Dems.

 

[Two Professors]

YouGov polling shows 65% of the public now in favour of nationalising water, energy and rail.

So we can put to bed the idea the Labour Manifesto was the problem.

Perhaps YouGov has others like me who were having a post-election laugh.

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]1206495435021570048[/tweet]

Good eh?

 

[A1X]

Well what a shocker...

[TWEET]1206565978177523712[/TWEET]

 

[Lever]

Well what a shocker...

[TWEET]1206565978177523712[/TWEET]

Could be that the predicted moves will take place immediately......

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

That's a rib-tickling post thanks for my damp white y fronts this morning.
Wake up, the reason you did not win the election was because........................?

No one condones poverty, what are you talking about?

Brexit, Corbyn. Take your pick. Doesn’t change the fact you’re advocating me getting on board with a party that has actively punished those in most in need and seen a huge rise in poverty, foodbank use and homelessness due to their callous policies. By voting for said party that is part and parcel of what you’re voting for, therefore you are complicit and therefore, by association, you are condoning it.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Well what a shocker...

[TWEET]1206565978177523712[/TWEET]

Proven liar may have lied. I am shocked by this news.

 

[Eeyore]

Is this thread still running The people have spoken, move on chaps.

They did, and didn't vote for a majority Conservative government with little account for the next 5 years.

When I raise this point people say it's sour grapes. Not one has offered an objection response beyond 'it's just the way it is'.

The Tories should have 280 seats, not 365. The people have spoken. 43% want Conservative representation.

57% now have no effective voice. How can someone claim 'the will of the people' when most didn't want them ?

 

[Hastings gull]

Brexit, Corbyn. Take your pick. Doesn’t change the fact you’re advocating me getting on board with a party that has actively punished those in most in need and seen a huge rise in poverty, foodbank use and homelessness due to their callous policies. By voting for said party that is part and parcel of what you’re voting for, therefore you are complicit and therefore, by association, you are condoning it.

For goodness sake - every post comes from you with the predictable long list of catastrophes -all down to the Tories, of course. There couldn't possibly be a variety of reasons for homelessness, could there? Over the years, there have been posters on here, who are involved and say there are indeed many factors, but of course that is not what you want to read, is it? And this idea that if you vote Tory you must be condoning poverty etc -are you really that extreme that you believe that? I have never met anyone who favours poverty; we all want to eradicate it, but the question and this is where we all differ, is how to do it.

 

[Hastings gull]

They did, and didn't vote for a majority Conservative government with little account for the next 5 years.

When I raise this point people say it's sour grapes. Not one has offered an objection response beyond 'it's just the way it is'.

The Tories should have 280 seats, not 365. The people have spoken. 43% want Conservative representation.

57% now have no effective voice. How can someone claim 'the will of the people' when most didn't want them ?

That is our system -everyone knows that from the start and had the vote gone the other way, I am pretty certain that you would not be lamenting the present situation.

 

[Eeyore]

That is our system -everyone knows that from the start and had the vote gone the other way, I am pretty certain that you would not be lamenting the present situation.

From my original entry 'When I raise this point people say it's sour grapes. Not one has offered an objection response beyond 'it's just the way it is'.

You seem to have confirmed that.

I have been raising this issue for many years irrespective of the government.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

For goodness sake - every post comes from you with the predictable long list of catastrophes -all down to the Tories, of course. There couldn't possibly be a variety of reasons for homelessness, could there? Over the years, there have been posters on here, who are involved and say there are indeed many factors, but of course that is not what you want to read, is it? And this idea that if you vote Tory you must be condoning poverty etc -are you really that extreme that you believe that? I have never met anyone who favours poverty; we all want to eradicate it, but the question and this is where we all differ, is how to do it.

Did you ever think that if a Conservative voter on here could actually dispute the list, offer a valid counter argument, I wouldn’t mention it so much? But as no Tory voter has been able to present an informed counter argument, I will keep reminding you of what you’re voting for, regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you.

Of course there are many reasons for poverty and homelessness. But the fact remains that, since 2010, poverty has seen the biggest climb since 1988, food bank use is up 2,400%, homelessness is up 1,000%, rough sleeping is up 1,200%. In that time we have seen a wave of cuts to welfare and public services. The two are intrinsically linked. The UN stated that the UK government has inflicted “great misery” on its people with “punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous” austerity policies. The same report also found that 14 million people, a fifth of the population, live in poverty and 1.5 million are destitute, being unable to afford basic essentials, citing figures from the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

The UN human rights council said that in the UK “poverty is a political choice”. Adding;
- Austerity Britain was in breach of four UN human rights agreements relating to women, children, disabled people and economic and social rights. “If you got a group of misogynists in a room and said how can we make this system work for men and not for women they would not have come up with too many ideas that are not already in place,” he said.
- The limit on benefits payments to only the first two children in a family was “in the same ballpark” as China’s one-child policy because it punished people who had a third child.
- Cuts of 50% to council budgets were slashing at Britain’s “culture of local concern” and “damaging the fabric” of society.
- The middle classes would “find themselves living in an increasingly hostile and unwelcoming society because community roots are being broken”.

If you want to eradicate these things, why vote for a party that is making them worse? Simply burying your head in the sand won’t make these uncomfortable truths go away.