The establishment and historic child sex abuse

[KZNSeagull]

This was many years ago, maybe going back to the Nineties, but used to always meet up with a former clleague (whose name I can no longer remember) at Ascot Racecourse who swore blind that he had mates in the SAS whose duties involved guarding Ted Heath's bedroom on Heath's official engagements, and turning a blind eye to the goings-on - and sometimes screams - with rent-boys within that bedroom. Seems to me that any quizzing of Heath's official bodyguards of that era might throw up something of interest to the current inquiry...

2 guys interviewed on Sky News earlier - one was an ex-bodyguard (not of Heath's) saying that essentially a Prime Minister or ex-Prime Minister has no private life, so everyone had to have covered it up, therefore these allegations are unlikely. Heath's biographer says pretty much the same thing, but went further to suggest that Heath was asexual!

 

[martyn20]

2 guys interviewed on Sky News earlier - one was an ex-bodyguard (not of Heath's) saying that essentially a Prime Minister or ex-Prime Minister has no private life, so everyone had to have covered it up, therefore these allegations are unlikely. Heath's biographer says pretty much the same thing, but went further to suggest that Heath was asexual!

Heath was the one PM who did have a life away from No10 while in charge. Sailing on his boat was his private life and he did an awful lot of it. The whole point of many of these cases is the police and security services knew what these people were doing and either turned a blind eye or actively helped.

 

[Harry H]

We will only be allowed to be drip fed what the establishment want us to know.
Argue all you will,but the "Higher" levels of society decide what we are allowed to know and what we aren't.
That is Royalty and the politicians.
Police just do as they are told,as do the armed forces.
Freedom??
There is only freedom if you doff your cap and tow the establishment line.
If you believe any different I feel sorry for you.
If you are lucky you get a bone thrown and you do OK.
If not you struggle.
Rock the boat and you will be ridiculed. Or got rid of.
Get caught kiddy fiddling on a council estate and you'll either get smashed to pieces or ten years.
If you are in the higher echelons of society,you will get raised eyebrows and a cover up.
That's the way it is.

 

[martyn20]

We will only be allowed to be drip fed what the establishment want us to know.
Argue all you will,but the "Higher" levels of society decide what we are allowed to know and what we aren't.
That is Royalty and the politicians.
Police just do as they are told,as do the armed forces.
Freedom??
There is only freedom if you doff your cap and tow the establishment line.
If you believe any different I feel sorry for you.
If you are lucky you get a bone thrown and you do OK.
If not you struggle.
Rock the boat and you will be ridiculed. Or got rid of.
Get caught kiddy fiddling on a council estate and you'll either get smashed to pieces or ten years.
If you are in the higher echelons of society,you will get raised eyebrows and a cover up.
That's the way it is.

In regard to this particular subject, that's the way it was. People are believed now, police forces can not just stop investigations without questions being asked, children can no longer just disappear from the care system. It's going to take a long time to sort out the damage done in the past but things are different now and will be in the future,

 

[Tarpon]

apart from being reported on BBC 24 and main headline on BBC news website.

I'm not solely referring to Heath. Given that the mainstream press are reporting on Heath the BBC have little choice but to do likewise. It was the same with Saville. However the overall lack of coverage re Dolphin Square etc. , related events and the invetigative narrative has been nothing short of shameful. The BBC engage passively and reluctantly on the whole issue and would clearly appear to be part of the problem rather than any potential solution.

 

[Tarpon]

... one of five items on the BBC website (it's been lead story since last night)

But no, the BBC has ignored the story

I have not seen anyone claim that the BBC have 'ignored' the Heath story - maybe I missed it - can you point it out?

 

[spring hall convert]

In regard to this particular subject, that's the way it was. People are believed now, police forces can not just stop investigations without questions being asked, children can no longer just disappear from the care system. It's going to take a long time to sort out the damage done in the past but things are different now and will be in the future,

We actually don't know if children go missing from the care system or not. Care homes are under no obligation to report on it. A series of FOI requests in 2014 led revealed 12,000 reports of children missing from care per year.

Clearly this number is next to meaningless as it doesn't tell us if the children came back.

 

[Gwylan]

I have not seen anyone claim that the BBC have 'ignored' the Heath story - maybe I missed it - can you point it out?

There you go

The BBC reporting (or lack of) so far has been inexscusable

 

[Billy the Fish]

In regard to this particular subject, that's the way it was. People are believed now, police forces can not just stop investigations without questions being asked, children can no longer just disappear from the care system. It's going to take a long time to sort out the damage done in the past but things are different now and will be in the future,

Sadly I'm not sure that's the case. The abuse in Rotherham is a good example.

I do think we're moving in the right direction although there's clearly a long way to go. Until the mainstream media start covering these stories properly it'll keep getting swept under the carpet.

 

[spring hall convert]

I'm not solely referring to Heath. Given that the mainstream press are reporting on Heath the BBC have little choice but to do likewise. It was the same with Saville. However the overall lack of coverage re Dolphin Square etc. , related events and the invetigative narrative has been nothing short of shameful. The BBC engage passively and reluctantly on the whole issue and would clearly appear to be part of the problem rather than any potential solution.

I'm completely with you, charitably I would describe their performance to date as remarkably safe. I think there's a large variety of factors at play but one of those is undoubtedly an establishment bias be that conscious or unconscious.

I hope some extremely serious scrutiny is placed on the BBC once the Saville report comes out. I do fear though it will just be used as ammunition for mud slinging from the BBC's numerous media enemies though.

 

[martyn20]

Hampshire Police become the 5th force to confirm it is now investigating Ted Heath

 

[Tarpon]

There you go

My post did not make specific reference to Heath or the BBC 'ignoring' the Heath story. It commented on the wider thread subject matter. I've explained further in post 1485. Let's hope the Heath story encourages (forces) the BBC to be pro active elsewhere.

 

[Davemania]

Mr Howarth is not guilty

 

[spring hall convert]

This argument the shills are presenting about Heath having 24 hour secret service presence is total bullshit.

a) We already know that one of the allegations is in 1961, before he became PM.
b) Survivors that have waived their right to anonymity and have said that some of their abuse took place with a police guard.
c) We already know that MI5 and MI6 both had child molesters in top, top positions. The secret service was compromised so what faith do we have that elements of organisations weren't sympathetic to paedophiles.

Laughably, I've just heard Lord Sherbourne describe it as 'out of character' for Heath on Radio 5. We're not so dumb as to think he barreled into the House of Commons red faced and with his trousers round his ankles. Serial child molesters by their very nature are secretive as they tend to not want people to know.

The other two shills I've seen wheeled out so far are the biographer, who clearly, at best, has a vested interest in being right about Heath and Wilf Weeks his former PPS who I would suggest is less than impartial and also was working for Heath.

 

[spring hall convert]

Lord Janner's first hearing is Friday - http://www.itv.com/news/central/2015-07-24/lord-janner-due-to-appear-in-court-next-month/

Obviously there is actually no chance of him being there. He's clearly too 'ill.'

 

[simmo]

Sorry to jump in at this point, but I'd love to know how they can prove what crimes were committed in the 60s?

Well they have proved (enough for convictions) allegations against Rolf Harris, Max Clifford and Stuart Hall for crimes that stretch back decades.

Alleged victims whom now tend to be in their 40's and 50's come forward and are doing so more and more since the Jimmy Saville story broke 3+ years ago now.

In answers to BensGrandad as to why investigate such matters, Ted Heath (for example) may be dead, but there may be people alive today whom may be involved in any wrong doing. For example Jimmy Saville's driver got convicted

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jimmy-savi...-guilty-string-rape-abuse-allegations-1478247

Also, it sends out a message to those doing wrong now (eg Rotherham)....no matter how long ago, the police will always be after you. Time is not a mitigating factor.

 

[spring hall convert]

Sorry to jump in at this point, but I'd love to know how they can prove what crimes were committed in the 60s?

I would imagine there's plenty they can do to remove elements of doubt, especially if numerous accusations are out there. Places and people recalled common abuse themes, identifiable marks on abusers etc...

Not all of this evidence comes from survivors either, there's a lot coming from former police officers and journalists who were barred from taking enquiries any further.

 

[Ernest]

I'm still waiting for an actual live politician to be charged and face trial

 

[Diablo]

I'm still waiting for an actual live politician to be charged and face trial

Quite I do wonder about someone dead for ten years...He can`t defend himself and can hardly be punished now..Can you get done for theft, speeding or parking fine after you are dead ?

 

[spring hall convert]

We actually don't know if children go missing from the care system or not. Care homes are under no obligation to report on it. A series of FOI requests in 2014 led revealed 12,000 reports of children missing from care per year.

Clearly this number is next to meaningless as it doesn't tell us if the children came back.

This came out yesterday as well - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-33738908