The Conservative Party: Dead In The Water?

[Buzzer]

The Tories big mistake was not having the balls to elect Ken Clarke as leader after Major and getting behind his pro-Europe policy.

A bit like the FA not having the balls to make Brian Clough manager of England.

Agree and disagree. Biggest mistake was not making Ken Clarke leader and going back to one-nation Toryism. Second biggest mistake was letting Europe become such a big issue for the party. IMO

 

[Pavilionaire]

Europe IS a big issue, and the Tories STILL haven't got the balls to get behind the whole concept of the EU and the Euro.

The vast majority of business is in favour of closer ties to Europe, we have benefitted from the broadening and widening of Europe and the myriad of business opportunities it has opened up.

Yet the Tories cower because the PERCEIVE the public are against the EU. It's about time the real truth of the benefits of EU membership were told. Companies like BT have made millions from going into the new member states, but you don't here stories like that on the news.

And we wouldn't get such a raw deal from the CAP if we were in there committed, not shouting from the outside.

 

[London Calling]

I do wonder how anti- europe the British population really is, 800,000 of us go to Benidorm every year plus another couple of million to other parts of Spain, with France being our biggest holiday area, Not bad for a anti-europe nation.

Its about time the Politicians stood up and sold the benefits of Europe - not shying away behid some racist mantra.

 

[The Large One]

I do wonder how anti- europe the British population really is, 800,000 of us go to Benidorm every year plus another couple of million to other parts of Spain, with France being our biggest holiday area, Not bad for a anti-europe nation.

Its about time the Politicians stood up and sold the benefits of Europe - not shying away behid some racist mantra.

It's weird. The long-standing stereotype of Brits going abroad is flying out ther en masse, and then moaning their arses off about everything from 'can't stand this dago muck, you can't decent egg & chips here' to 'the sun's too hot' to 'can't understand this foreign money' to 'no-one here speaks el bloody lingo'.

Of course, it's now a comedy pastiche, but although they're in the minority, there are still some people who behave like that.

It's like any '-ism', it's usually based on ignorance.

 

[Buzzer]

It's like any '-ism', it's usually based on ignorance.

dwarfism is based on people being short, you know. Unless they're thick dwarves that is. But that's not big nor is it clever.

 

[The Large One]

dwarfism is based on people being short, you know. Unless they're thick dwarves that is. But that's not big nor is it clever.

Ba-boom.

 

[looney]

This thread is funny.

Bag load of lefties eulogising and wet dreaming about the tory party.

The tory left comprises about 5% of the party, if they split they would be burried.

The simple fact is that its the status quo effect. Labour haven't had an ERM crisis or a bad ressesion,yet.

Hence the tory left plays this down and bleats about "reform".
Any serious threat will come from the right. Its just a leftist wet dream that the UK can maintain 2 main leftwing parties. This goes against all evidence and political trends.

The left are burried in France and the USA, a lot of this has to do with the shift in the political spectrum to the right.

Its been over 30 years since a leftish tory party won an election those times are gone. When things and labour are bad enough people will start listening seriously to the blame game, which in part is what politics is about imo. Things are going there way but labours luck has held, in part due to global economic trends.

If you think its hard or important now for the tories to shift their image as a traditionalist quasi white racist party think how much harder it will be when the turn comes for labour to shift their image as a terrorist freindly immigrant party.
Things are going that way but as I said labour hasn't had its winter of discontent this millenium to give those perceptions sharper and more general focus.

 

[looney]

Europe IS a big issue, and the Tories STILL haven't got the balls to get behind the whole concept of the EU and the Euro.

The vast majority of business is in favour of closer ties to Europe, we have benefitted from the broadening and widening of Europe and the myriad of business opportunities it has opened up.

Yet the Tories cower because the PERCEIVE the public are against the EU. It's about time the real truth of the benefits of EU membership were told. Companies like BT have made millions from going into the new member states, but you don't here stories like that on the news.

And we wouldn't get such a raw deal from the CAP if we were in there committed, not shouting from the outside.

Another Europhile spouting rubbish. Most people are against the EU and the Euro. Most economists agree that the UK is at present incompatable with the Euro and will take years to be made compatable if at all.

You fall for the old fallacies that we actually need to belong. Yet neither Norway or Switzerland are in and they prosper and we are far bigger.

If the UK is to join a trade block why not Nafta?

 

[The Large One]

Another Europhile spouting rubbish. Most people are against the EU and the Euro. Most economists agree that the UK is at present incompatable with the Euro and will take years to be made compatable if at all.

Does that include you, Mr Four Degrees?

 

[Gwylan]

Another Europhile spouting rubbish. Most people are against the EU and the Euro.

Pro-EU parties took about 97 percent of the vote in the last election - if there's such a massive EU feeling, why don't anti-EU parties get more of a share?

And the only time we've had a referendum on this particular topic, there was a three to one majority of staying in.

Still, if you're deluded enough to think that we have two major left-wing parties in this country, you're deluded enough to think anything.

 

[sten_super]

Another Europhile spouting rubbish. Most people are against the EU and the Euro. Most economists agree that the UK is at present incompatable with the Euro and will take years to be made compatable if at all.

You fall for the old fallacies that we actually need to belong. Yet neither Norway or Switzerland are in and they prosper and we are far bigger.

If the UK is to join a trade block why not Nafta?

I don't know which economists you talk to, but pretty much every one I speak to (a fair few, seeing as I am an economist) is all for joining the Euro.

The incompatibility and 'golden rule' nonsense that Gordon Brown talked about as Chancellor was posturing to give him time to pass any 'decision' on to his successor, as IMHO it will be a vote loser. Don't let Gordon and his bunch of cronies convince you that we are not compatible with the Euro. The advantages (in terms of better terms of trade, reduced transactions costs, etc) seem to me to outweigh the negatives (loss of independent monetary policy).

There isn't particularly a need to belong, but there are benefits. What everyone I speak to certainly does agree with is that the current 'halfway house' situation that we're in is useless. We should either go in wholeheartedly, or pull out altogether.

 

[Simster]

I think one of many pieces of bulshit that our good friend lunatic likes to spin is that everybody is against the EU and the Euro. Apart from this being totally untrue, they are two very separate issues.

I hardly know anybody who wants us to pull out of the EU. Not surprising really, you'd have to be a cretin to want to pull out given the 50 years of peace and prosperity we've enjoyed, in no small part due to massively improved economic ties with our neighbours not to mention free movement.

As for the Euro, it's a different argument. Personally I used to be very pro Euro, but we opted out of the first cut and it's done us no harm at all (especially now that our own central bank is cut from politics). Our economy is structured around debt and this is unusual in Europe, so I'm not sure any more whether we really need to inherit the Euro.