Noooooooooo! I know Chinman3000 has been gracious, but the deed is done. He started a thread, let's not **** about with it. And Titanic is the worst of the lot when it comes to ignoring tradition and superstition.
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[Cricket] The Ashes 2015 ***OFFICIAL SERIES THREAD***
- Thread starter Bold Seagull
- Start date
This . His batting has been toilet for months, and he appears a bit past it as a keeper.
That'll be a matchwinning innings from him in the next test then. Sorry.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,985
He is definitely at the twilight of career, but I think you right him off at your peril. Haddin has been a pest to us for so long because he's been so quality I just can't see it being the end of him yet. I also think the Australians were so lucky to have a player of his calibre as a ready made replacement for Gilchrist, sooner or later they are going to to have to replace him and I find it hard to believe they'll strike gold three times in a row.
I disagree - the immediate replacement is about 30, but Australia will have plenty of decent young batsman in development, a few of whom will be toying with keeping as an extra string to their bow. I'm firmly of the belief, that unless your side has a quality spinner, wicket-keeping is honestly not difficult, and can comfortably be learned, rather than having to have some inherent natural keeping ability.
Alec Stewart pretty much proved this 20 years ago, then Matt Prior after him.
Any decent fielder could learn to keep wicket.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Not playing at Lord's for 'family reasons'. Looks like Watson's gone too.
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Best wishes to the Haddin family.
Absolutely this.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,075
England all-rounder Moeen Ali is a doubt for the second Ashes Test against Australia, which starts at Lord's on Thursday, because of a side injury.
The Worcestershire off-spinner's fitness will be assessed during practice at Lord's on Wednesday.
Yorkshire leg-spinner Adil Rashid will be picked if Moeen is deemed unfit.
Moeen, 28, performed superbly in the 169-run first Test victory in Cardiff, scoring 77 in the first innings and taking five wickets in the match.
Those included the key wickets of Steve Smith and Michael Clarke in the first innings, and David Warner and Brad Haddin in the second.
In 12 Tests, he has scored 548 runs at 30.44 and taken 38 wickets at 31.73.
Rashid, 27, has been in the squad for the first two Tests but was left out of the final XI for the first Test at Cardiff.
He has played 11 one-day internationals and six Twenty20 internationals but is uncapped at Test level.
The Worcestershire off-spinner's fitness will be assessed during practice at Lord's on Wednesday.
Yorkshire leg-spinner Adil Rashid will be picked if Moeen is deemed unfit.
Moeen, 28, performed superbly in the 169-run first Test victory in Cardiff, scoring 77 in the first innings and taking five wickets in the match.
Those included the key wickets of Steve Smith and Michael Clarke in the first innings, and David Warner and Brad Haddin in the second.
In 12 Tests, he has scored 548 runs at 30.44 and taken 38 wickets at 31.73.
Rashid, 27, has been in the squad for the first two Tests but was left out of the final XI for the first Test at Cardiff.
He has played 11 one-day internationals and six Twenty20 internationals but is uncapped at Test level.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,985
We obviously disagree on the impotance of a decent keeper. I don't think it's a coincidence that England got to number 1 in the world during a spell where Prior was one of the best keepers in the world and didn't drop a single catch for two years. Equally was it any coincidence that the tailing off of his form followed by injury coincided with England's decline?
Also compare the Australians under Micky Arthur, when they tried the woeful Wade as keeper, and were in stark contrast to Lehmann era when he immiediately brought Haddin back into the side.
Some keepers can learn it, especially if they've flirted with it, but it's not a given. Kieswetter being another example of a someone in that mould but was in fact a dreaful keeper.
You might be able to bring someone into do a job, but it's hard to find someone who can truly keep brilliantly and be worth their place on batting alone. Haddin has certianly been that player for Australia, and like I said I agree past his best but still a dangerous player. Nevill is probably going to come in now and prove me totally wrong, but I think the Aussies were lucky to have Haddin to replace Gilchrist, and would be insanely lucky to have another replacement of that calibre ready to go.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
- Thread starter
- #110
Got to no.1 by having an unbelievable opener in Cook, and experienced captain in Strauss, a run scoring batting line up in Trott, KP, Bell, a superb spinner in Swann, and a brilliant pace attack. Prior complimented that really well and was a vital part, but a bit of a stretch to suggest the whole success was tied into him in some way.
Buttler coming in for Prior has probably been the smoothest transitions really.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,985
You're right, I did appear to be giving quite a lot of credit to Prior there, and obviously he was just part of the success.
Not at all - a decent keeper is very important. My point, as you've beautifully demonstrated, with your example of Matt Prior, is that you don't have to magically find one - you can take a batsman with the right attributes in the field (agile, athletic, good hand-eye co-ordination) and TEACH him to become that 'decent keeper'.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,985
I don't think it happened overnight for Prior, to get to the level he did took quite some time. You're right though that you can teach it, and probably a good fielder could learn it without actually keeping before. My point was the Aussies had two exceptional keepers in a row, and regardless of whether it can be taught, reaching that exceptional level normally takes time, except in the Gilchrist/Haddin case. I was saying surely they can't be that lucky that it happens again, and Nevill just comes straight in to their test team and instantly becomes the best wicket keeper batsman in the world.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,269
In the last hour The Guardian has quoted Cook as saying he expects Ali to play tomorrow.
As for Haddin, although there's been talk in the Australian media of replacing him I don't think that would have happened for the 2nd test had he not pulled out.
No Harris and now no Haddin. Unless Nevill is spectacularly bad I can't see Haddin playing another test for Australia - he'll be 38 next birthday and will surely have retired after this tour anyway. It's not ideal preparation for Australia and they badly need three or four of their established stars - Clark, Smith, Warner, Johnson - to have a big match.
I'll be interested to see how Nevill keeps to the Aussie quicks, especially after his 31 byes conceded vs. Essex.
As for Haddin, although there's been talk in the Australian media of replacing him I don't think that would have happened for the 2nd test had he not pulled out.
No Harris and now no Haddin. Unless Nevill is spectacularly bad I can't see Haddin playing another test for Australia - he'll be 38 next birthday and will surely have retired after this tour anyway. It's not ideal preparation for Australia and they badly need three or four of their established stars - Clark, Smith, Warner, Johnson - to have a big match.
I'll be interested to see how Nevill keeps to the Aussie quicks, especially after his 31 byes conceded vs. Essex.
Rashid is no mug with the bat, at all, should it come to it. Obviously not up there with Moeen, and the late order would reshuffle a little, but not too much of a worry. Puts a little bit of pressure of Buttler to bat properly, perhaps.
Lords is a notoriously tricky ground to keep at, too...
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
- Thread starter
- #117
crodonilson
He/Him
Bell at 3 
I don't know whether we'll make 50-3 but we'll almost certainly be 25-2.
I don't know whether we'll make 50-3 but we'll almost certainly be 25-2.
Sweeney Todd
New member
Yorkshire lose Bairstow to England, but regain their Ballance.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
- Thread starter
- #120
Bell at 3
I don't know whether we'll make 50-3 but we'll almost certainly be 25-2.
Thing is with Bell, I don't think he's been getting out one particular way. He's had a few good balls which if your name is on them you're out of luck, and he just seems a bit out of nick. He might only need one innings and a bit of luck and he can score big like he did against this lot in 2013.
Personally, I think 1 change is enough to keep some continuity. Perhaps consider another change if needed for the 4th test rather than a wholesale shuffle. Ballance has been so clearly exposed to one kind of delivery that it doesn't look like an issue you can just get back in form from. Like when Root was dropped, he'll hopefully go away and come back a better player.
Happy to keep Lyth in as he's had so few games would seem just a knee jerk reaction to get rid of him.