The Albion posts losses of £14.7m

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

They have been sent to Companies House already. They will make them available for download (for £1 for each company) when they've processed them. They're not there yet.

Just to clear up a couple of misunderstandings that have already been posted on here.

Cash is NOT the same as profit/loss. Tony can keep the club solvent (i.e. having enough cash). A cash injection does not impact on profit or loss. Any interest on a loan would impact on profit/loss, but the loans have been interest free.

Any investment in the training ground infrastructure will be a capital item and shown as an asset on the balance sheet and does not affect profit/loss until the asset starts to be depreciated. So, new investment in the infrastructure at the AMEX or in the training ground will not be a contributory factor to the increased loss.

Finally, these new accounts are for the year 1 July 2012 - 30 June 2013. Anything that happened after that date will not be in the figures, but there may be a note saying that XXX happened after 30 June 2013 and will be accounted for in the current year's accounts. This only happens if XXX is a big thing - for example, last year there was a note (known as a "post balance-sheet event") that said that Tony had converted £40m of debt into shares.

Quite so, and there was no depreciation from either in the previous (ie 2011/12) accounts because neither the stadium nor the training ground had been completed. I assume the latter (as it's still on-going) will not appear until 2013/14 or maybe later but there will be some stadium depreciation here; assuming it's being done at over 25 years, I'd guess at £4-5M and this is discounted for FFP purposes.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

It will be interesting to see the figures broken down. A headline loss can look bad until you delve into the numbers. Losses last season over and above the FFP threshold mean there is no financial penalty or embargo punishment , these only apply to the 13/14 accounts which have to be submitted in December this year and if we lose more than £8M sanctions will apply.

 

[dougdeep]

Maybe Gus was right all along... we have hit the ceiling.

Of course he was right. No wonder we kept a couple of million from the transfer window.

 

[tinycowboy]

They have been sent to Companies House already. They will make them available for download (for £1 for each company) when they've processed them. They're not there yet.

Just to clear up a couple of misunderstandings that have already been posted on here.

Cash is NOT the same as profit/loss. Tony can keep the club solvent (i.e. having enough cash). A cash injection does not impact on profit or loss. Any interest on a loan would impact on profit/loss, but the loans have been interest free.

Any investment in the training ground infrastructure will be a capital item and shown as an asset on the balance sheet and does not affect profit/loss until the asset starts to be depreciated. So, new investment in the infrastructure at the AMEX or in the training ground will not be a contributory factor to the increased loss.

Finally, these new accounts are for the year 1 July 2012 - 30 June 2013. Anything that happened after that date will not be in the figures, but there may be a note saying that XXX happened after 30 June 2013 and will be accounted for in the current year's accounts. This only happens if XXX is a big thing - for example, last year there was a note (known as a "post balance-sheet event") that said that Tony had converted £40m of debt into shares.

There's too much we can't tell until we see the accounts - eg training ground costs can be capital, but they will also include some items that are expensed immediately. As you say, depreciation on assets usually only starts once that asset is ready for use. Regarding the stadium itself, we need to see the accounting policy in respect of depreciation of capitalised expenditure. Will be interesting if there are any PBSE. Cash flow statement should also be a key statement for study.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But why haven't we spunked the Bridcutt transfer money on a desperate January last minute signing?

Oh, wait...

 

[Black Rod]

Compared to some other clubs we do have relatively little money spent on players. Although if total costs are £20.9 million it puts us probably about 8th/9th in the division, compared to 14th the previous season.

It'd be very interesting to see the total footballing costs of everybody in the Championship. How much for example were Palace and Hull's budgets to get promoted? And Wolves in going down. That would give an excellent comparison of just how good a manager Poyet actually was for us

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

).

However I've been reviewing some Football MBA submissions as part of the day job, and one is an analysis of Bolton, and it showed that Bolton (who still made a humungous loss) have £5.07 of TV money for every £1 of gate receipts, whereas the Albion had only 50-55 pence of TV money for every £1 of gate receipts.

Presumably that's in the form of parachute payments?

 

[GreersElbow]

QUICK! Spend spend spend, we have to spend!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I would suggest like others have alluded to much of the debt as with the year before would be one of expenditure and write off's/depreciation. Many of these are not true costs ie directly need money to paid off. That said our playing budget did increase dramatically.

TB is obviously still maintaining the clubs bank balance but I doubt he actually put in anywhere like the figure of 15 million.

Furthermore all the hype and "bad" blood being shown by Knight in his book, these figures certainly highlight how far off he was from ever building the ground and financing the club long term in this division. We would have been in mire big time by now.

Thank our lucky stars for Mr Bloom.

Yes, there is depreciation and amortisation in the Profit & Loss but Tony would have funded capital expenditure like early work on the training ground plus capital outlay on players. I think he might well have spent more than £15million, not less.

I agree about DK. Dick really dodged a bullet when Bloom came forward to finance this project; Dick's reputation would have been left in tatters had he been shown as powerless to make it happen. I was at fans' forums when he dodged questions about how the stadium costs were to be financed, and that was before costs more than doubled.

 

[Black Rod]

As Barber partly blame transfer cost and associated wages I was wondering who we have signed that would have made that impact on the budget?

Kuszczak
Bruno
Bridge
Hammond
Crofts
Dobbie
Orlandi
Lopez
Ulloa
Upson

All proven players at Championship level or above. That was ten new, first choice players coming in with just Craig Noone, Alan Navarro and at a stretch Tommy Elphick going out. No wonder the football costs increased by so much

 

[Goldstone1976]

Quite so, and there was no depreciation from either in the previous (ie 2011/12) accounts because neither the stadium nor the training ground had been completed. I assume the latter (as it's still on-going) will not appear until 2013/14 or maybe later but there will be some stadium depreciation here; assuming it's being done at over 25 years, I'd guess at £4-5M and this is discounted for FFP purposes.

Well, yes, I was expecting some depreciation for the AMEX at least in these accounts. However, if there is a sizable chunk, wouldn't you have expected PB to have said as much in his press release? So, perhaps, as they continued to invest in infrastructure at the AMEX they haven't depreciated it at all in 12/13. Can't tell until the stats are available.

There's too much we can't tell until we see the accounts - eg training ground costs can be capital, but they will also include some items that are expensed immediately. As you say, depreciation on assets usually only starts once that asset is ready for use. Regarding the stadium itself, we need to see the accounting policy in respect of depreciation of capitalised expenditure. Will be interesting if there are any PBSE. Cash flow statement should also be a key statement for study.

Yep, indeed.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

But why haven't we spunked the Bridcutt transfer money on a desperate January last minute signing?

Oh, wait...

Too slow. Post #90 already covered the self righteous side of things

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Kuszczak
Bruno
Bridge
Hammond
Crofts
Dobbie
Orlandi
Lopez
Ulloa
Upson

All proven players at Championship level or above. That was ten new, first choice players coming in with just Craig Noone, Alan Navarro and at a stretch Tommy Elphick going out. No wonder the football costs increased by so much

Should Vokes and Vicente be on that list too?

 

[GreersElbow]

Any idea when they're made public? Is it once they're cleared with CH?

 

[Syph]

It'd be very interesting to see the total footballing costs of everybody in the Championship. How much for example were Palace and Hull's budgets to get promoted? And Wolves in going down. That would give an excellent comparison of just how good a manager Poyet actually was for us

We made £3m profit and got promoted, mostly due to player sales.

This will be taken the wrong way (coming from a Palace fan), but how have you not managed to turn those record attendances into reduced loses? Something doesn't add up to me.

 

[ewe2]

what a pathetic answer, is that going to solve all the clubs issues, think again
regards
DR

Bloom at the a fans meeting that i was at,suggested that heavy loses were inevitable in trying for the Premiership. He is hoping that FFP would work and help bring,the clubs main expense ,player wages under control,he also stated that he felt that this process would start ,when negotiating new contracts,this Summer.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Kuszczak
Bruno
Bridge
Hammond
Crofts
Dobbie
Orlandi
Lopez
Ulloa
Upson

All proven players at Championship level or above. That was ten new, first choice players coming in with just Craig Noone, Alan Navarro and at a stretch Tommy Elphick going out. No wonder the football costs increased by so much

We had to pay Vicente his wages too.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Wonder who on this board expected that one!

​

ME!

 

[El Presidente]

It'd be very interesting to see the total footballing costs of everybody in the Championship. How much for example were Palace and Hull's budgets to get promoted? And Wolves in going down. That would give an excellent comparison of just how good a manager Poyet actually was for us

Trying to find out the figures, all I know is that Cardiff lost £30 million and Hull £28 million in getting promoted last season.

 

[Mackenzie]

Kuszczak
Bruno
Bridge
Hammond
Crofts
Dobbie
Orlandi
Lopez
Ulloa
Upson

All proven players at Championship level or above. That was ten new, first choice players coming in with just Craig Noone, Alan Navarro and at a stretch Tommy Elphick going out. No wonder the football costs increased by so much

That helps. There will be some hefty signing on fee's there, as well as Ulloa's transfer fee. Wages must have rocketed, and stadium depreciation will have started. I can understand how we've made such a loss.

Hopefully FFP will help to drive down the biggest cost, player wages. Ridiculous that a well run, well supported club like ours should make such staggering losses.