[Politics] The 4 leader debate on tv

[beorhthelm]

So there was no austerity? Cuts totalling 30 billion weren't made to social services, welfare payments and housing subsidies?

The UN concluded that the government's austerity programme amounted to human rights abuse stating that it was responsible for "entrenching high levels of poverty and inflicting unnecessary misery in one of the richest countries in the world."

projected budget increases were cut. in the shadow of a politics sound bite we dont ask about where the money was or should be spent. for instance what services are being provided by councils beyond legal requirements, shouldnt those gaps be filled properly? instead we harp on about debt rising, where we came in, when real austerity would have seen debt lower. all the parties are offering to increase spending and hundreds of billions of borrowing now, often without even saying what the borrowing would be spent on. those charts will continue to grow, though so will the social issues.

 

[RossyG]

So how will you vote for her?

He’ll go to the top of this thread and click the Nicola Sturgeon option.

 

[Stat Brother]

In all honesty it frightens me that out of 66.5 million people these are the 4 main candidates.
I’ll happily say I’d normally vote conservative but I find Johnson as poor a choice for PM as there has been in many a year.
Problem is labour do not really offer a viable option in Corbyn. If they did they would or should win this election but somehow Johnson is 2/7 on to win.
Brexit needs a conclusion one way or another and then a new election is needed with people who have some idea how to run a country

Brexit can't reach a conclusion 'one way or another'.

Brexit can only reach a conclusion by repealing it.
Ploughing forward to 'Leave' only gets us to the conclusion of the beginning.

 

[ferring seagull]

Yep, totally comfortable that despite being born in the 60’s, lived through the dinosaur 70’s, survived Thatcherism, made it into the next millennium having always voted Labour up until Brown came along, that I now find the current comedy duo leading the Labour as a disaster waiting to happen.

Boris is a clown, but, he wants to deliver what was voted for. He will also not last long as PM if elected. Hopefully by then Jezza can get back to doing what he does best, growing onions and supporting the enemies of the UK. Hopefully, post Brexit we can have a sensible election once more with heavy weight candidates, not a farce with clowns leading the parade.

This in spades !

 

[Surf's Up]

Look above - it’s the right answer. Felt like watching a Labour conference.

Exactly this - typical of the way the hard left works and it underlines how foolish it will be to underestimate them....they have been working like this inside the labour party for years and now they are so close to the prize they can smell it, taste it and feel it, hence the Labour Party manifesto which is one massive unaffordable electoral bribe. But ..... Corbyn is completely the wrong puppet for their ambitions, he's as thick as shit and just does as he's told and the Lansman, McCluskey and McDonnell thirst and thrust for power will ultimately fail. There will then be a night of the long knives and Rebecca Long-Bailey will become the next unelectable puppet.

 

[Wardy's twin]

So how will you vote for her?

in the poll...

 

[Bold Seagull]

Exactly this - typical of the way the hard left works and it underlines how foolish it will be to underestimate them....they have been working like this inside the labour party for years and now they are so close to the prize they can smell it, taste it and feel it, hence the Labour Party manifesto which is one massive unaffordable electoral bribe. But ..... Corbyn is completely the wrong puppet for their ambitions, he's as thick as shit and just does as he's told and the Lansman, McCluskey and McDonnell thirst and thrust for power will ultimately fail. There will then be a night of the long knives and Rebecca Long-Bailey will become the next unelectable puppet.

Have you read it? I've not got through it all yet as I only printed if off yesterday. You must be a faster reader than I am to cover all the detail.

 

[SockMonster]

I am not a corbyn fan and will vote tory at the election and there is simply no other option for me. I dislike corbyn but he is well ahead of lib dem who for me are chancers going for the remain vote desperate for power

I agree with you about the Lib Dems. It is clearly an attempt to attract remain votes. However The Conservatives have clearly been aiming for the leave vote ever since Johnson got in so by your argument they are chancers as well. And if ever a PM could be described as a chancer it is Boris Johnson.

 

[Weststander]

It was a ‘Corbynista’ audience because Johnson actually got held to account for once by a well informed audience? Jesus wept

No, many of us called it a Corbyn audience before 20:30 hours. Some gentle statements pretending to be questions from the audience to Corbyn, a neat ticks all the boxes answer, followed by wild whooping and clapping from the vast majority. Rinse and repeat for the rest of his half hour, bar three more confrontational proper questions.

Then the targeted venom for the others, especially Swinson.

 

[Taybha]

Which lies did you think are the best for the country .


From that lot Swinson just edges out Corbyn for me

 

[maltaseagull]

I think it is fair to say, sadly Corbyn walked this one. The other 3 had mares.

I am going to follow the glorious JC and keep my opinion to myself by staying neutral

 

[maltaseagull]

So there was no austerity? Cuts totalling 30 billion weren't made to social services, welfare payments and housing subsidies?

The UN concluded that the government's austerity programme amounted to human rights abuse stating that it was responsible for "entrenching high levels of poverty and inflicting unnecessary misery in one of the richest countries in the world."

A little bit of a reality check for you:
The 2010 UK general election was contested by a Labour Party and a Conservative Party which had both committed themselves to austerity policies. Labour's then-Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling predicted that "two parliaments of pain" would be necessary to address the UK's budget deficit. The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that Labour's plans implied a cumulative decline of 11.9% in public spending over four years. This would reduce public expenditure by a total of £46 billion in inflation-adjusted terms, taking it from over 27% of the economy to below 21%, back to its level in the late-1990s. The IFS also said that there appeared to be only a modest difference between the plans put forward by the two main political parties.

If they had won the election and had implemented these plans, I wonder if you would have supported them?

 

[Diablo]

Corbyn came across well, however Promises are easy to make when you haven`t been in power for years. Corbyn even promising to be the Party for business !! as well of course billions of pounds for anyone who wants it and the only people paying for it are the top 5%.

If everyone believed him he would surely poll 95% of electorate.

 

[rogersix]

If I were able...........oh please. Enjoy your four weeks of optimism, then you can get back to your default setting of ‘oh woe is me’ and ‘it’s not fair’.

that's rich coming from you

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yep, totally comfortable that despite being born in the 60’s, lived through the dinosaur 70’s, survived Thatcherism, made it into the next millennium having always voted Labour up until Brown came along, that I now find the current comedy duo leading the Labour as a disaster waiting to happen.

Boris is a clown, but, he wants to deliver what was voted for. He will also not last long as PM if elected. Hopefully by then Jezza can get back to doing what he does best, growing onions and supporting the enemies of the UK. Hopefully, post Brexit we can have a sensible election once more with heavy weight candidates, not a farce with clowns leading the parade.

This in spades !

And, out of interest, what date do you two think we will be in this 'post Brexit' position ?

If Johnson gets his majority and manages to 'leave' by the end of Jan 2020, do you believe, as Johnson has stated, that we will have the new deal in place in 11 months ?

If so, you may want to do a little reading up on negotiating trade deals, maybe starting on the much quoted Canada deal, far simpler than that which we are seeking, that has taken over 10 years to negotiate, has no aspect of services (the thing that makes up 80% of Britain's GDP) and still isn't fully implemented. Then maybe start reading up on what experienced trade negotiators say about Johnson's timescales.

Personally, I can't see anyway that this single deal with the EU will take under 10 years, all the while paying our EU fees and still operating under EU regulations and rules (with no input). The £36B 'divorce bill' only covers us up to end of 2020, and so that will have to be renegotiated (probably numerous times) for which there is no financial structure agreed.

And that is completely ignoring all the other trade agreements and arrangements that we have to replace on leaving the EU. JRM said 50 years

At my age, I don't think I would be around to see this 'Post Brexit' time and Ironically, there's every chance that Johnson, only being a couple of years younger, won't either

Anyway, onto more pressing matters

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

No, many of us called it a Corbyn audience before 20:30 hours. Some gentle statements pretending to be questions from the audience to Corbyn, a neat ticks all the boxes answer, followed by wild whooping and clapping from the vast majority. Rinse and repeat for the rest of his half hour, bar three more confrontational proper questions.

Then the targeted venom for the others, especially Swinson.

Utter tosh. Corbyn faced a number of hostile questions, most notably from someone who seemed to be pushing him to actually endorse the far-right anti-indigenous US-backed coup in Bolivia. Corbyn answered the questions properly, explained his Brexit position again (a final say referendum with credible options for both sides, in which the people make the decision, not him personally), and set out a positive economic vision of the nation.

As for Jo Swinson. Well what is it even possible to say? Shockingly out of her depth. Entirely unable to defend her horrific voting record during the austerity coalition. Unwilling to explain how she would rectify the ludicrous debt mountains the Lib-Dems helped the Tories heap onto students. And deflecting from her nonsense Brexit position (deliver another referendum if they don't have enough MPs to do so, refuse to hold another referendum in the staggeringly unlikely scenario that they win a parliamentary majority) by using antisemitism as a smokescreen. Dreadful, lamentable, awful. There just aren't enough words to describe how bad it was.

Boris Johnson. Bluff, bluster, evasions, deceptions, and lies. The usual posh buffoon act we all know so well by now. Three minutes of bluster instead of a simple admission that he wouldn't apologise for the bigoted language he's used in the past. The repetition of his outright lie about building 40 hospitals, when they've only provided funding to renovate six. Loads of pledges to boost spending on hospitals, schools, police, and other public services, with absolutely no acknowledgement whatever that it was ruinous Tory austerity cuts that put all of these services into crisis in the first place.

Corbyn and Sturgeon were streets ahead of the other two. As for the audience, they were also the standout performers. Asking tough questions and refused to be taken for mugs. Pity that having a well informed audience asking tough questions doesn’t work in Johnson’s favour though, eh?

 

[ferring seagull]

And, out of interest, what date do you two think we will be in this 'post Brexit' position ?

If Johnson gets his majority and manages to 'leave' by the end of Jan 2020, do you believe, as Johnson has stated, that we will have the new deal in place in 11 months ?

If so, you may want to do a little reading up on negotiating trade deals, maybe starting on the much quoted Canada deal, far simpler than that which we are seeking, that has taken over 10 years to negotiate, has no aspect of services (the thing that makes up 80% of Britain's GDP) and still isn't fully implemented. Then maybe start reading up on what experienced trade negotiators say about Johnson's timescales.

Personally, I can't see anyway that this single deal with the EU will take under 10 years, all the while paying our EU fees and still operating under EU regulations and rules (with no input). The £36B 'divorce bill' only covers us up to end of 2020, and so that will have to be renegotiated (probably numerous times) for which there is no financial structure agreed.

And that is completely ignoring all the other trade agreements and arrangements that we have to replace on leaving the EU. JRM said 50 years

At my age, I don't think I would be around to see this 'Post Brexit' time and Ironically, there's every chance that Johnson, only being a couple of years younger, won't either

Anyway, onto more pressing matters

I don't disagree that the achievement of decent trade deal with the EU may indeed be some way off ( even assuming that things unfold that way ).

What is incontrovertible is that once the nonsense is out of the way, if Brexit occurs, the negotiating of a trade deal should not involve MPs other than those in trade associated positions and that will allow the H. of C. to get on with the vast array of urgent business which has been sidelined in all this time.

Perhaps I am even less likely to be seeing it either LOL !

 

[Spicy]

Why was Nicola Sturgeon there? Mind you the number of Scots in the audience there can't have been many left in Scotland!

 

[nicko31]

I think it is fair to say, sadly Corbyn walked this one. The other 3 had mares.

Corbyn
Sturgeon
Swinson
Johnson

Bizarre 30 percent on here think Bojo he did best. Poor preparation and an utter car crash

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Certainly the audience and Bruce seemed to be rooting for Corbyn but this is the bbc so no surprise

Would you care to explain then why the ‘leftie’ BBC deliberately decided to edit out the audience laughter at the concept of Boris Johnson telling the truth? And edited Boris Johnson’s wreath laying?