[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

[Withdean11]

The total vote is rather strange; 14 million fewer Dem votes than 2020 AND 2 million fewer GOP votes than 2020, so 16 million LESS people voted than last time despite this being touted as an existential crisis for democracy. I wonder if there are millions of uncounted (mainly Dem) mail-in votes stashed away? Just wondering.

The CA count is only 55% in. By the time all votes are counted Trump will have around the same number as 2020 if not more.

 

[Bodian]

given he lies so much, fails to deliver on so much more, why assume this area is something he'll successfully follow through on? it's not in his power as President, it's up to the legislators in Senate and House. if indeed they want to overturn their entire structure of democracy, restructure their republic they hold so dearly, that's another matter.

Yes - my post was more of a dig at Dwayne really, pointing out that he either believes Trump or is happy to support an outright liar.

The total vote is rather strange; 14 million fewer Dem votes than 2020 AND 2 million fewer GOP votes than 2020, so 16 million LESS people voted than last time despite this being touted as an existential crisis for democracy. I wonder if there are millions of uncounted (mainly Dem) mail-in votes stashed away? Just wondering.

You mean all those electoral centres that Trump has stuffed with stooges may have not counted some of the votes? Maybe that was his 'little secret'.

It is a bit stange.

2008: GOP 60.0m DEM 69.5m Total 129.5m
2012: GOP 61.0m DEM 66.0m Total 127.0m
2016: GOP 63.0m DEM 65.8m Total 128.8m
2020: GOP 74.2m DEM 81.3m Total 155.5m
2024: GOP 72.6m DEM 68.0m Total 140.6m

Massive increse in 2020 generally and for Dem specifically.

More likely a big Democratic vote increase in 2020 to 'get rid of Trump' followed by gradual disillusionment with the result, ending in apathy and a drop back in the vote.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I agree to a point. Politics aside, Trump is such a well known reprehensible person, aligning oneself with him says a lot about one's own moral values.

The problem is that the perceived wisdom, is at the top level, very few politicians are decent people.

Both sides are spreading stories about the dodgy dealings, of their opponents.
From a Trump supporter's position, Biden and Harris were both reprehensible people.
They are prepared to dismiss the stories and convictions as "Fake news", "Politically motivated attacks" etc.

The main-stream media still don't understand, is their view on the "truth", isn't universally accepted as the truth anymore.

Trump understands this more than any other politician.
It's why he wins.

 

[chickens]

It's all well and good railing against the lunacy of voting for Trump, but what exactly is the alternative?

Politics is broken. It has pandered to the needs of billionaires, for decades.
The vast majority of voters, don't trust a word politicians say, and will vote for someone who appeals directly to their personal opinions.

Populism will continue to win out.
We will see it happen here too.

Sadly, I agree with this. Labour’s changes have to be showing some benefits before the time of the next election. The alternative is going to be that grinning ghoul Farage. (Or a successor)

I can’t blame voters, if they feel they’ve tried the usual suspects and neither have made a difference, then they’ll look elsewhere. Trump’s message was simple and powerful. Biden and the Fed had tamed inflation, but too late, and wages had not caught back up. People felt poor.

I see a lot of parallels between the US and here, I fear we’re only one or two terms away from going down the same road. If we want to avoid it, wages need to rise substantially, my suspicion is they won’t, and they’ll continue their post-2008 stagnation. People will turn to something away from the status quo.

 

[Questions]

I'm wondering if Trump approved/made the choice of that song, and whether he knew it was by a gay band.

They had Born in the USA as their tune recently didn’t they. They didn’t listen to those lyrics did they ?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Didn’t realise that, very strange almost the stuff of conspiracy theorists, an outsider might question the Dems have had this election ‘stolen’ from them?

Or more likely, their candidate didn't inspire them to get out and vote.
Trump made big inroads into traditional Democrat demographics.
Maybe large quantities of those voters, couldn't bring themselves to vote for him, but did enough to prevent them voting for Kamala.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The total vote is rather strange; 14 million fewer Dem votes than 2020 AND 2 million fewer GOP votes than 2020, so 16 million LESS people voted than last time despite this being touted as an existential crisis for democracy. I wonder if there are millions of uncounted (mainly Dem) mail-in votes stashed away? Just wondering.

Out of interest, who would you blame for the "missing" votes? Biden's government, or the Democrat governors of the swing states? If there is any smidgeon of possibility that 10m votes can be stolen, then it would certainly give credence to Trump's claims about 2020. Surely the point then and now is that the system is robust enough to prevent mass fraud.

 

[chickens]

For someone who is not an apologist for the orange bumble****, you certainly seem happy to stand up for him.

I think you’ve misread me. I’m not an apologist for Trump, I’m trying to get my head around why America’s voters knew the character of the man and voted for him anyway.

As I’ve written elsewhere on this thread, we can’t now keep any pretence that America’s voters didn’t know who or what he was, or that he is “accidentally” president. Nor is it likely that a majority of US voters were voting “pro-sexual assault.”

By all means continue your angry posturing if it makes you feel better, I wanted a Harris win too, but I genuinely feel that this election has given a clear message that the US (despite its huge numbers of self-proclaimed Christians) is an amoral nation, motivated entirely by self-interest.

The US own us in all but name, and that makes me feel decidedly queasy.

 

[Bozza]

Jimmy Kimmel visibly trying to hold back the tears as he lists all the people and groups that this election result is bad for which included, of course, "all the people who voted for him who don't realise it yet".

 

[nicko31]

I agree to a point. Politics aside, Trump is such a well known reprehensible person, aligning oneself with him says a lot about one's own moral values.

I guess some people are just old fashioned with felony, rape and fraud viewed as red lines. For others they look the other way if they are convinced they will get what they want. Welcome to America 2.0

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I guess some people are just old fashioned with felony, rape and fraud viewed as red lines. For others they look the other way if they are convinced they will get what they want. Welcome to America 2.0

woke

 

[dsr-burnley]

In the cold light of day the 5th November 2024 was a referendum on democracy over autocracy in the USA

51% of the population chose the latter. It remains to be seen if they will have another relatively free and fair election again.

Welcome to the new America everyone, it will never be the same again.

And we better wake up or we'll be next....

It's going to be tricky to make proposals to save democracy if they're going to be founded on the idea that the majority shouldn't win.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

What is interesting is how the term "Fascist" no longer has the impact it did have.

The rest is politics had a political historian on, who made the point that Politics has changed for ever.
The shadow of WWII, is no longer relevant in the politics of the 21st century.
Political campaigning via the main-stream media has little impact in comparison to Social media.

Many of the political class are using tactics, which just don't work.

 

[nicko31]

It's going to be tricky to make proposals to save democracy if they're going to be founded on the idea that the majority shouldn't win.

If that is the case I guess Harris will not certify the election?

 

[dsr-burnley]

What is interesting is how the term "Fascist" no longer has the impact it did have.

The rest is politics had a political historian on, who made the point that Politics has changed for ever.
The shadow of WWII, is no longer relevant in the politics of the 21st century.
Political campaigning via the main-stream media has little impact in comparison to Social media.

Many of the political class are using tactics, which just don't work.

That's simple overuse. All post-war Republican presidents bar Eisenhower have been called fascists by their opponents. The American people simply don't believe that life under any American president- no, not even Trump - was akin to nazi Germany.

 

[dsr-burnley]

If that is the case I guess Harris will not certify the election?

Why would she not? Has she ever proposed that democracy has lost if the majority get their way?

 

[Jim in the West]

Sadly, I agree with this. Labour’s changes have to be showing some benefits before the time of the next election. The alternative is going to be that grinning ghoul Farage. (Or a successor)

I can’t blame voters, if they feel they’ve tried the usual suspects and neither have made a difference, then they’ll look elsewhere. Trump’s message was simple and powerful. Biden and the Fed had tamed inflation, but too late, and wages had not caught back up. People felt poor.

I see a lot of parallels between the US and here, I fear we’re only one or two terms away from going down the same road. If we want to avoid it, wages need to rise substantially, my suspicion is they won’t, and they’ll continue their post-2008 stagnation. People will turn to something away from the status quo.

I agree - there is a real danger. At least a start has been made on the wages side, with the Minimum Wage going up more than twice inflation (much more for U21s).

 

[Cordwainer]

Easiest gig in politics being in opposition ain’t it? Make all sorts of promises based on the perceived failings of the incumbent government. Stoke people’s fears and give them easy scapegoats. Come into power spend four years fixing nowt and blaming previous reign. They all do it. Short term policies for absolutely no long term gain.
When all of this is being sold to voters by self interested, self aggrandising proven grifters a la Farage n Brexit and lil Donny making Merika grate again, then you really have to wonder about some people’s naivety/ gullibility and all they are prepared to look past.

 

[Seagull58]

The one good thing is that where states have had propositions on the ballot enshrining the right to abortion (or similar related topics), either previously or in this election, they have nearly always passed (even in red states).

Failed in Florida and North Dakota inthis election though.

 

[pb21]

More likely a big Democratic vote increase in 2020 to 'get rid of Trump' followed by gradual disillusionment with the result, ending in apathy and a drop back in the vote.

I agree, VERY likley a rational explanation for the 2020 numbers but it is easy, if you are inclined, to see that as some kind of red flag.